#67 Why Healthy Relationships Can Feel Boring
In today's episode, I'm answering the question of why healthy relationships can feel boring - especially if you're someone who's accustomed to drama and chaos in your love life.
In today's episode, I'm answering the question of why healthy relationships can feel boring - especially if you're someone who's accustomed to drama and chaos in your love life.
WHAT WE COVER:
why unhealthy relationships are so addictive
the principle of intermittent reinforcement
how to navigate discomfort around stable relationships
how to get your needs for novelty & excitement met in a healthy way without sabotaging your relationship
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Apply for my 6-month Homecoming Mastermind
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
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You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge, and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach Stephanie Rigg, and I'm really glad you're here. You hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, I am going to be answering the question of why healthy relationships can sometimes feel boring, particularly if you've not had many healthy relationships.
0:00:41.79 → 0:01:20.04
And so you're coming into maybe your first ever healthy, stable, secure relationship after a string of really dysfunctional, turbulent, unhealthy relationships. This is something that a lot of people experience. There can be this almost unsettling discomfort of being in a relationship where there's no drama and chaos. And we can either feel that as a form of low level anxiety or maybe a loss of attraction or kind of disinterest in our partner because they're so stable and reliable and available to us and we're used to chasing someone who isn't. So there's lots to unpack there, and I'm going to be talking about that today.
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Why unhealthy relationships can be so addictive. Even though it's ostensibly the opposite of what we say we want, there's something within us that chases that drama and that inconsistency, and that unpredictability. And what you can do if you do find yourself kind of uncomfortable with a healthy, stable relationship, rather than just pulling away or sabotaging it because it feels unfamiliar to you, I'm going to be offering some tips for you to hopefully get through those growing pains so that you can continue with and maybe not let go of the healthy relationship that you've worked so hard to find. That's what I'm going to be talking about today before I dive into that. Just sharing the featured review for this episode, which is I'm so thankful my friend sent me this podcast.
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It's so nice to be more aware of why you feel and react to certain people and situations. Thank you so much for sharing all of this information. I'm forever grateful. Thank you so much for that beautiful review. I really appreciate it.
0:02:19.42 → 0:03:12.57
If that was your review, you can send an email to podcast@stephanierigg.com, and my team will set you up with free access to one of my master classes as a way to say thank you. Okay, so let's dive into this conversation around why healthy relationships might feel boring. And I think that the best starting point for explaining this is to flip it around and go, why are unhealthy relationships sometimes so addictive? This is something that a lot of people will relate to. And certainly for a period of time, I found myself very much in that hamster wheel of chasing someone who was very inconsistent, very unreliable, very unavailable, and yet there was something extremely addictive about continuing to try and seek and chase.
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And I think that a really important concept to understand in this is the concept of intermittent reinforcement. I've probably spoken about this once or twice on the show before, but for anyone who's not familiar with the term intermittent reinforcement, this comes from behavioural science, behavioural psychology, and it's basically a premise behind gambling machines, all sorts. Of addictive patterns, which is if you do not know when you are going to get rewarded, you will keep trying and trying and trying to do the thing that might elicit the reward because you never know when you're going to get it. Whereas if you know that every fifth time you do the thing, that's when you'll get your reward and that's very stable and predictable or even every one time you do it, then eventually you kind of get bored of trying. Whereas when you don't know and there's this level of unpredictability, you keep trying and trying.
0:04:08.41 → 0:04:42.83
That's why people spend all of their money on slot machines is because the next spin could be the one that I win. It's completely unpredictable. So I'll just go one more, one more, one more. It absolutely capitalises on our dopamine system which is all about pursuit and the pursuit of more of this thing that could be rewarding. So as applied to relationships, and particularly inconsistent relationships, we can see why chasing after someone who gives us intermittent reward and intermittent reinforcement becomes so addictive.
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And most of the time when we're in an unhealthy relationship, it is not unhealthy and bad. 100% of the time there will be times and moments where this person shows up and you are connected and you do feel good and you laugh together or you are intimate or whatever, something that feels rewarding about that dynamic. But then all of a sudden it'll be gone and they'll be angry or you'll be fighting or whatever. But there's this sense of I don't know when the reward is going to come and sometimes when I behave in this way it works and other times it doesn't. And so I'll just keep trying and trying and trying and trying and because that is so dopamine fueled and it's so addictive that intermittent reinforcement, we can get really trained to seek that and expect that and associate that with relationships.
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And that is a real hamster wheel, it's a real roller coaster that keeps us at this elevated level of stress and striving in our relationships. If we then take that away and we enter into a relationship with someone who is stable and predictable and reliable and we don't have to work really hard and we don't have to guess and we don't have to play all of those games. Our system can kind of be in a bit of disarray because we are used to operating up here. And all of a sudden, all of that energy that we're used to expending in our relationships doesn't really have anywhere to go. And there's a part of us that's uncomfortable without all of that chaos and drama because we kind of trained our body and our nervous system to expect it and to be primed for it and to actually get something out of it.
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Because when we do get the reward, even when it's very intermittently, it feels so good. In fact, it feels even better for the fact that it's so unpredictable.
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Again, to use the slot machine analogy, if you do win, even if it's $5 and you're down $200, it is so exciting and exhilarating and lights you up to have won $5 and you lose sight of the fact that you have lost $200, right? It's the same principle. If the person who you're in this really unhealthy relationship dynamic with is dismissive of you 95% of the time, but then brings you flowers, one day those flowers are going to feel like the most incredible thing in the world because they're so out of the ordinary, and you never really know when you're going to get something like that. So when that is the backdrop, going into a relationship with someone who's really stable is probably going to feel disconcerting, at least to certain parts of you that are used to working really, really hard to get kind of basic needs met to get basic recognition, basic connection. So I think having conscious awareness of this is a really, really important first step, as is always the case, right?
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No matter what our pattern is, if we are not consciously aware of it, we are just going to be blindly acting from a wounded place, from a kind of subconscious protective place. And then we're going to wonder why we keep repeating patterns and we're not where we say we want to be. That's because we're not acting from a conscious place. So the place we consciously want to be, like that part of us just isn't in the driver's seat of our experience. So when we can get curious and go, I notice that maybe I'm not even attracted to healthy people in the first place.
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And I think that's the case for a lot of people. You might have heard me say before, I always correct people's question when they ask me, like, why do I attract unhealthy people? And I think we really have to ask ourselves, why am I attracted to unhealthy people? And that is a much more honest and self responsible question and one that we actually have power over. Why am I attracted to what part of me seeks out people who fit a certain mould, who are inconsistent or unreliable or unavailable to me in some way?
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What do I get out of participating in those dynamics? Because if we don't know the answer to that, that subconscious part of us that does get something out of it is going to keep running the show. So getting really curious going, what do I get out of this? What part of me prefers the chaos and the drama and feeling like I need to work really, really hard to get my connection needs met and feeling a sense of victory or worthiness when that unavailable person shows up for me. And spoiler alert, oftentimes this has origins in our family system or in earlier relationships.
0:09:33.83 → 0:10:29.60
It's very rare that it is born of the situation that you're kind of reenacting it in, but bringing conscious awareness to that and going, okay, what part of me needs my attention there? Rather than just going, oh, this healthy person, I'm not attracted to them, therefore they must not be a good fit and I'll break up with them and then I'll go into a pat and repeat with that other person. Right? So I think we do really need to become aware of that and decide which part of me do I want driving the bus here in my relationships, my wounded parts, or my wise adult self who knows what I truly want and knows what I deserve and what's best for me. So if you do find yourself in this situation where you're in a healthy relationship and it feels boring or it feels disconcerting or unsettling in some way, I think there are a few things to remind yourself of.
0:10:29.70 → 0:11:16.94
One is that stability and predictability and reliability is not always terribly exciting. And I think that we don't have to resign ourselves to the fact that our relationship is going to feel boring forever and ever and we just have to accept that. But I do think we have to manage our expectations around the fact that comfort and stability and cosiness and safety are not always the most exhilarating and exciting of experiences. And recognising the benefits to that to that stability and that safety and really allowing ourselves to be nourished by it again, particularly if that has not been your experience in the past. It might feel uncomfortable at first, but it is probably the medicine that you don't realise you desperately need to just be able to rest in that safety and security.
0:11:17.01 → 0:12:11.28
That's probably going to be a really healing experience for you. With that being said, I think we can also acknowledge if we are someone who values excitement or adventure or any of those other kinds of qualities in a relationship, those are things that we can deliberately cultivate. We don't just have to feel like we've given up because a relationship is healthy and cosy and comfortable and that necessarily has to come at the cost of excitement. But I think that distinguishing excitement and adventure and novelty from drama and intensity and chaos is an important distinction to make. So if you do value those things, figuring out for yourself what a healthy expression of that kind of energy looks like, rather than just defaulting back into the chaos and the drama that you know so well, but that is also really costly to your system and is not a nice pattern to keep spinning around in.
0:12:11.46 → 0:12:59.27
So what could be examples of things that would inject and infuse some excitement and maybe even passion into my relationships, but not with this undertone of turbulence or anything that feels like it's injecting insecurity into my system. Because that's an easy place to gravitate back towards when it is our familiar. But it's likely to be an unhealthy pattern, repeat rather than what we truly need in order to heal those wounded parts of us. So I hope that that has been helpful in answering the question of why healthy relationships can feel a little bit uncomfortable or boring, particularly if that's new to you to have a healthy relationship. But as I said, stick it out.
0:12:59.34 → 0:13:33.43
Definitely don't run at the first sign of discomfort. All relationships are going to have growing pains, and ending a relationship because it feels too safe and secure is probably not a great idea. So stick it out. See how you go. And if you do really miss that sense of excitement and rush and exhilaration, try and find healthier and more adaptive ways to consciously cultivate those dynamics within your healthy relationship, rather than going and seeking chaos and drama elsewhere to get that sugar hit.
0:13:33.52 → 0:13:48.92
So I hope that that's been helpful. If you enjoyed this episode, as always, I'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review, leave a rating. It all helps so much in continuing to spread the word about the podcast. Otherwise, I look forward to seeing you for our episode next week. Thanks, guys.
0:13:50.17 → 0:14:12.30
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg.com or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thank again for being here, and I hope to see you again soon.
#62 Understanding Your Nervous System with Sarah Baldwin
In today's episode, I'm speaking with Sarah Baldwin - a Somatic Experiencing Practitioner and Trauma Coach who is trained in Polyvagal interventions and is on the training team at the Polyvagal Institute. Sarah specialises in somatic trauma healing, attachment work, parts and inner child work and nervous system regulation.
In today's episode, I'm speaking with Sarah Baldwin - a Somatic Experiencing Practitioner and Trauma Coach who is trained in Polyvagal interventions and is on the training team at the Polyvagal Institute.
Sarah specialises in somatic trauma healing, attachment work, parts and inner child work and nervous system regulation.
WHAT WE COVER:
why nervous system regulation is the missing piece in so much healing work
understanding the different states of your nervous system
the connection between attachment and nervous system regulation
how to distinguish between anxiety and intuition
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Sign up for my signature 8-week course Healing Anxious Attachment
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
You might also like…
Episode Transcript
0:00:00.57 → 0:00:29.88
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship Coach Stephanie Rigg and I'm really glad you're here.
0:00:30.01 → 0:00:57.01
Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today is a very exciting and special episode as I am joined by Sarah Baldwin. If you don't know Sarah's work, sarah is a somatic experiencing practitioner and trauma coach. She's trained in polyvagal interventions and is on the training team at the Polyvagal Institute. She specialises in somatic, trauma healing, attachment work parts and inner child work and nervous system regulation.
0:00:57.51 → 0:01:31.91
So I'm sure that you can imagine from that introduction in that bio, you can understand why I'm so excited to have Sarah join us here today. We're going to be talking all about the role of the nervous system in influencing, shaping, regulating our emotional experience and how becoming more fluent in our nervous system can really support us to become more empowered in not only our relationships, but our life more broadly. So, Sarah, welcome. Thank you for joining me on the show. Thank you so much for having me.
0:01:31.95 → 0:01:52.12
It is so good to be here with you today and so good to be here with everyone listening. So we've got a lot of ground to cover. Let's dive straight in. I speak about nervous system regulation a little bit on the podcast. It's something that I cover in my online course around anxious attachment.
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And to be very honest with you, when I first created that course and included a module on nervous system regulation, I was worried that people's eyes would glaze over, I'd lose people because it might not sound that sexy to people understanding our nervous system. I was always really pleasantly surprised that people came back and said, you know, wow, this, this changes everything. This is really the missing piece. And it is a paradigm shift. And that's certainly been my personal experience as well.
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And so I'd love to hear from your perspective why this stuff matters, why people should care about their nervous system. Well, our nervous system, our autonomic nervous system specifically, it is responsible for creating our entire experience of how we perceive the world, ourselves, others. And our entire experience is a result of what's happening inside of this nervous system. And so first and foremost, that's really huge. If there's a system inside of us that has that kind of power over our lives, shouldn't we know about it?
0:03:04.38 → 0:04:13.80
And I say this a lot, but I think it's so fascinating that we learn about outer space and solar systems and black holes and so on and so forth and so many other things, but we are not taught about the system that resides inside of us. Not understanding this system essentially means that we are kind of like put in the backseat and it goes on cruise control and that means we're making choices behaviours and so on, and having choices behaviours, so on and so forth, that are not perhaps things that are of our choice but are of a survival response. What I like to say is that at any given moment there are six states within our autonomic nervous system that we can be residing in. And I think of that like imagine if you had six pairs of glasses that all had different coloured lenses, a rose coloured lens, a dark brown lens, a bright red lens that happened to have frenetic energy moving around in it, a beautiful clear lens. And at any given moment you have one of those lenses on how you are seeing everything, experiencing everything, is depicted by that lens.
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And when I say everything, I really mean everything. Meaning our thoughts, our behaviour. So the actions we take, our feelings, things like feeling hopeful, curious, loved, loving, anxious, frustrated, worried, concerned, frozen, trapped, apathetic, depressed. All is dependent on this nervous system, the sensations we feel in our body. So sensations are things like feeling tension or feeling relaxed, feeling numb or feeling here.
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All of those things are entirely decided upon by this nervous system. And not just that, but the way in which we connect with other human beings via attachment is directly related to what's happening in our nervous system. So it's really imperative that we understand this system within us because it is the answer to really unlocking the lives that we desire. It is the foundation of all healing. I can explain in a bit what I mean by that, but it's really foundational in our experience as a human being.
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Thank you for that. I think it's also, in my experience, the answer to this question of like why am I like this? Or why does this keep happening? In that sense of none of this makes sense. It's like you kind of can step outside of that and go actually, a lot of this makes sense, maybe all of it makes sense.
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And I think that that in and of itself can be a really powerful experience. Just to have someone tell you no, there's an explanation for this and there's a system behind it. And understanding that rather than feeling powerless and feeling that, we have all of these conflicting parts with different motives and taking us in different directions which might be very different to the direction that we ultimately want to go. Not understanding why we aren't where we want to be again, whether that's in work or our romantic relationships or anywhere else, our emotional state. Yeah.
0:06:18.73 → 0:07:23.10
So first I just want to say I have a complex trauma history myself and spent most of my life dysregulated and not knowing what was happening or why it was happening or how to change it, or why sometimes I felt okay and sometimes I didn't feel okay and sometimes I felt really not okay. And I didn't understand any of it. And not only that, but the traditional mental health model is set up in a way to make people feel as if something is wrong with them, using words like dysfunctional or maladaptation or treatment resistant anxiety or depression and so on and so forth. And I'm not at all saying that diagnoses can't be helpful, but when we look through a lens of there be or even something like insecure attachment styles, all of these are through lenses of there's something wrong with you and you're deficient and neuroscience and polyvagal theory, it shows us unequivocally that the opposite is true. There is absolutely nothing wrong with us if we are experiencing dysregulation of our nervous system.
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In fact, everything is working exactly right. Our system is never confused. It is so incredibly, exquisitely powerful. And as someone who experienced the opposite for so long, it was so good to know that. And that's why I say all the time and have a programme called You Makes Sense.
0:07:40.96 → 0:08:03.61
And I'm writing a book with the title You Make Sense because it is so good to know that we make sense. And if we make sense, that means there's something we can do about it. So, just to explain this, which might be a really new term for a lot of you, your autonomic nervous system, like, what is that? What does that even mean? So within us, each of us, is this brilliant self protective system.
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We all have one. In fact, every mammal has one. And any moment we are experiencing one of six places inside of this self protective system. So there are many members of this autonomic system that we have, like members of the team. And I liken it to a special ops team, not for any military affiliation, but because a special ops team in general is the best of the best.
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It's very hard to be on a special ops team. And a special ops team has many members, all with very different roles. They don't all have the same role, which is important because there's going to be different things that we need done on the team. Our autonomic nervous system is the same. It is the best of the best.
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It is the strongest system within you. Parts of it are 500 million years old and every member has a different job. But they have one mission, just like a special ops team, one primary purpose. And that primary purpose is to keep you safe and alive at all costs. It loves you so much, it will do whatever it takes to make sure that you are alive and okay.
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And it does that in the form of Dysregulation. And I'll explain what that is in a second. So the first line of defence, or the first special ops team member, is you can think of as our threat detector. So imagine it standing out in front of you and its whole job is to look out into the world and look inside of you to see is that safe, dangerous or life threatening? Safe, dangerous or life threatening.
0:09:36.78 → 0:10:04.37
And here's the thing. For anyone listening who has felt like you are broken, like you are beyond help, like something is wrong with you, I hope in this episode that you are able to see that. Science says that couldn't be further from the truth, my friend. Because this threat detector, every millisecond of your entire life, every millisecond which is really fast, everyone, it has been looking out into the world from the moment you came into this world saying is that safe, dangerous or life threatening? Is that safe, dangerous or life threatening?
0:10:04.39 → 0:10:16.83
Is that safe, dangerous or life threatening? Is that safe, dangerously threatening? It's doing it right now wherever you are in the world listening to this episode. And that first of all talk about not weak, right? That is really strong.
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It also looks internally, which is called interception neuroception. That coin is termed by Stephen Porges is its ability to look outside of us. So you might be saying, well, how does it decide what is safe, dangerous or life threatening? Well, it looks to a database of past information that is inside of each of us. Think of it like if you have your own personal database and inside your own database is every lived experience you've ever had.
0:10:42.36 → 0:11:23.69
You don't have to remember it, it's in the database. And that means the really yummy, wonderful, amazing things are in there. Like the birth of your child, or a wonderful vacation, or laughing with friends, or a wonderful moment family. The not so good experiences like being bullied in school, or a medical procedure that did not go well, or not being heard, seen or known, or the life threatening experiences like neglect, or abuse, or emotional abuse, or racism or sexism or colonialization or whatever kind of traumas you might have experienced, all of them are in there. Not only that, we also have our ancestors experiences, our parents experiences in there.
0:11:23.76 → 0:11:45.50
Unresolved trauma. That's the concept of epigenetics in there as well. So when my threat detector is looking out into the world, like right now I'm looking outside of my office in Los Angeles, California, there's a beautiful tree. And immediately when I looked at the tree, I felt something in my body that said it's nice. I noticed like a smile come on my face and I noticed it felt good.
0:11:45.63 --> 0:12:09.96
The reason being is because in my database there's lots of information of I grew up in the middle of the woods and my home wasn't safe, but the woods were really safe. So anytime I see a tree, my threat detector says that's safe. Now, if let's say I had caregivers whom I was never good enough with and they always, every time I brought a report card home, it was never enough. It was never enough. It was never enough.
0:12:10.01 → 0:12:23.79
For example, let's say you have a boss who says, hey, who's a lovely boss? So nice. They're not like your parents who were so hypercritical and unkind to you. They say, hey, we have to do your quarterly review. Well, guess what happens?
0:12:23.86 → 0:12:39.64
The threat detector says, whoa, we have data about that not being safe. We're going to feel like we're not good enough. We're small. We're also like reminding us of our younger parts, and that's not safe. And so here's what your threat detector does in a millisecond.
0:12:39.67 → 0:13:02.87
It says, what did we need to do back then to maintain safety? And we know you maintain safety because you're here now. And it says, we're going to do the same thing now. That was the right thing. So the threat detector calls in one of six Special Ops team members to do the trick to protect you or to let you be in safety at any given moment.
0:13:02.91 → 0:13:19.32
So let's say let's go to the example of the boss. So your system says, whoa, that's dangerous, but I think we can do something about it. It's dangerous, but not life threatening. Meaning I think we might be able to fight this thing or flee this thing. So in a millisecond, it calls in something called your sympathetic nervous system.
0:13:19.42 → 0:13:38.70
That's a team member of your Special Ops team. So imagine that you had your hands closed in front of you. It's almost like it's like a door closing you off from the external world. And that's what it's like when our sympathetic nervous system or any state of self protection is protecting us. It's blocking us from the bad thing.
0:13:38.88 → 0:13:57.51
And it also the crux of that is it keeps out the things that we desire. So if we're finding ourselves stuck in our lives, that's a clue. I might have a Special Ops team member standing in front of me. So sympathetic is all about the doing. And I'm just going to name some things so folks can hear what that's like, because a lot of you might really know this state.
0:13:57.63 → 0:14:08.18
So let's say a boss is saying, hey, we have to have that talk. And all of a sudden, neuroception threat detector says, hey, that's not safe. Sympathetic, come in. Sympathetic comes in in a millisecond. All of a sudden I feel anxious.
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I feel concerned. My heart rate increases. I have racing thoughts like, wait, did I do something wrong? I don't know. Did I not?
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I left work 15 minutes early last week and I don't know if I told mine I left work 15 minutes early last week and wait, I don't know did I get the assignments done that I said I was going to do? And all of a sudden I'm sweating and I feel tension in my body and there's tension in my jaw. All of a sudden, my jaw is tight, my neck is tight, my shoulders are up to my face, my ears. Rather, I have tunnel vision. I can't focus on anything else.
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I have butterflies in my stomach. I feel like I can't digest food or I'm going to throw up. And there's so much energy in my body, you can probably hear that in my voices. I'm putting this on for you. That's called your sympathetic nervous system and all about the doing.
0:14:43.53 → 0:15:03.56
And we want that system. It's really evolutionarily. A wonderful system to have. For example, just to give you an evolutionary response, or example, let's say a lion was chasing me. My system, my threat detector would say, hey, I think we can do something about this run and get away.
0:15:03.74 → 0:15:33.24
So when we're here, here's what I want listeners to know. What is so extraordinary is this sympathetic system talks to every organ in your body and essentially says not just organ, but chemical release, hormonal release, and says we need everybody to get on the memo of self protection right now because we love this person so much, we need to make sure they're safe. So what happens is your immune system, your system says, do we need our immune system right now if we're running from a theoretical lion? Absolutely not. That shuts down.
0:15:33.29 → 0:15:41.15
Do we need our GI tract functioning properly and digesting food? No way. Shut that down. We don't need that functioning fully. We'll shut it down just to function minimally.
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Hey, cortisol and adrenaline. We need you to hike up so that we can sprint away as fast as we possibly can. Thinking brain, prefrontal cortex. Do we need to think and rationalise learn a new language if we're running from a lion? No way.
0:15:53.92 → 0:16:11.18
Liver. Do we need to detoxify properly? No. So all of that extra energy goes to increasing our heart rate, increasing our overall energy in our body so that we can sprint or flee the thing as fast as possible. So this is a brilliant self protective response.
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It is one that a lot of people find themselves in. Now, that's not the only self protective response. We have two others. The other is let's imagine the theoretical lion that I just described is no longer, I don't know, 300 yards away, it's 5ft away or a yard away. It's very close.
0:16:34.18 → 0:16:53.77
And so what the threat detector says is it says, woof, this has gotten more dangerous than I thought it was going to be. And team Sympathetic, who's all been about mobilising, running and running, running, you weren't able to properly or able to do. You did your best, but you couldn't get us away from the threat. Not your fault. You did your best that you could.
0:16:53.94 → 0:17:22.71
What I'm going to do is I'm going to call in our most extreme form of self protection called our dorsal vagal complex. Now, this is a different state. Remember I said there's six states, this is the second state or another one of the six states. Imagine it standing in front of you guarding you now, this state's job, and I think this is so beautiful. It comes online when our system is saying, my love, I don't think that I can fight this thing for you.
0:17:22.88 → 0:17:40.33
I can't get rid of it and I can't make it stop. But what I can do is help you to leave your body so that you don't have to feel the perpetual pain of what we can't make go away. When I learned that, I thought, wow, if this is not a loving system, I don't know. It is. It has never let us down.
0:17:40.42 → 0:18:04.07
When other people may have let us down. Your nervous system never ever has, my friend. And so every the beautiful thing is every mammal actually has the ability to access this dorsal system. And for example, the impala that's going to be eaten by the lion. Its system lovingly says, my dear, I can't make this stop, but I can help you leave your body so you don't have to feel the pain of this.
0:18:04.19 → 0:18:25.44
And I just think like wow, we are amazing beings. Like wow, that is so cool. And I'm saying that everyone is someone who spent a couple of decades in this state of dorsal, not in my body. And there's a variety of experience here, so this might sound familiar. Some of this here's what it can look like, feeling apathetic, I don't care.
0:18:25.49 → 0:18:46.88
The things I used to, like, nothing seems enticing or good. Then I start to feel a little out of it and fuzzy. I have low energy. I'm feeling like I can't really think. I'm starting to notice that tasks like folding the laundry, answering emails, doing errands, like, oh, it feels impossible, I just can't do it.
0:18:46.90 → 0:18:58.58
I notice that I'm feeling almost like I'm going into outer space. Like I'm floating away. I feel numb. I can't really feel my body or I'm floating above my body. I feel hopeless.
0:18:58.72 → 0:19:06.55
I feel shame. Something's wrong with me. I can't I'm not capable. I'm not able. I feel depressed.
0:19:06.68 → 0:19:33.70
I feel dissociated levels, that there's levels of dissociation which can leaving your body, which can start by feeling like maybe even like oh, I took a sleeping pill, but I didn't. And I feel out of it and weird and kind of drugged, but I didn't take a drug. So what's going on? I'm just not here in my body. I can't feel my body or my face or all the way to I don't know who I am or I don't think the world is real or I don't remember how I got here today.
0:19:33.75 → 0:19:54.46
That's a very deep level of dissociation. And that is think of it like a bear going into hibernation. Everything is shutting down and everything inside of us shuts down too. All of those internal organs begin to shut down as well as our heart rate and so on and so forth. All to help us leave our body and so that we don't have to feel the perpetual pain of what's happening.
0:19:54.51 → 0:20:30.12
So if we experience neglect as a child, if we experienced work environments that were really toxic, that we felt like we couldn't leave, if we had home environments that were abusive, if we had parents who were fighting all the time, or alcoholics, or they were emotionally unwell themselves, or we were physically harmed, or we experienced so many other things that are life threatening. What occurs as we go to this state? And then there's one more state of dysregulation that we experience, and it's called freeze. Now, freeze is equal parts that sympathetic. The sympathetic is like think of it like a cheetah sprinting off.
0:20:30.17 → 0:20:48.69
It's so much energy, lots and lots of energy. And dorsal is the opposite, bare and hibernation. So we have two equal and opposite forces and they come together equally. One saying I have to, one saying I can't. And so when these forces come together, it creates something called tonic immobility.
0:20:48.79 → 0:21:02.65
So think about it, something that I have folks do. And if you're listening, try this out. Push with both hands equally. Like, put your hands together and push as hard as you can and keep doing that for a few seconds. I'm doing it right now with my hands in front of me.
0:21:02.74 → 0:21:14.37
I'm pushing them together as hard as I can. And what I'm noticing is it takes a lot of effort to do this. I'm feeling a little warm. My heart rate is increasing and I'm going to stop it. But I wanted you all to practise that.
0:21:14.41 → 0:21:25.30
Because when we're in freeze, people think, why didn't I do something? I just stood there. Why didn't I say something? Why didn't I fight back? Why didn't I?
0:21:25.32 → 0:21:34.09
Why didn't I? Why didn't I? Which creates a lot of shame. And what I want you to know is when you're in freeze, your system is doing so much. It takes a lot of energy to be here.
0:21:34.21 → 0:21:53.50
To follow the animal analogy, it's like a deer in headlights. So what it's like is all this energy inside, but I'm frozen, so I'm trapped in it. A couple of simple examples of what that can look like. Let's say you want to step towards something in your life. You want to start a business, and you're like, I really need to start it.
0:21:53.52 → 0:22:03.95
And I feel behind and I really need to get going. And you sit at your computer and you're like, I have 75 million things that I want to start and do. I start with hiring this person or this person or doing this or doing this. I mean, there's so many things to do. What did that person do when they started their business?
0:22:03.99 → 0:22:10.66
I don't know. And then all of a sudden, I feel blank and overwhelmed and I'm like, I just need to go to bed. This is too much. I can't do this. I can't do this.
0:22:10.76 → 0:22:15.06
It's too much. No, but I need to do this. No, but I can't do this. No, but I need to do this. No, but I can't do it.
0:22:15.08 → 0:22:43.26
And then you're like find yourself organising your junk draw for the 12th time because you just can't seem to step towards the thing. But all you do is think about stepping towards the thing that you can't seem to step towards. That is a classic experience of being in this state of freeze. Simple example you get a text from someone that's kind of hard to read and you think I really need to respond back, but you're like yeah, I'll do that later, I really need to do it now, I'll do it later. And you think about doing it for 8 hours, but you don't actually do it and you're exhausted by that experience.
0:22:43.36 → 0:23:05.06
That is a self protective state of free. Those are the three states of Dysregulation in our nervous system. And again, when we're in those states, the only reason you are there is because your nervous system doesn't think you're safe. That's the only reason. Now you may be wondering well, I'm safe now why is it doing that?
0:23:05.16 → 0:23:48.76
And the reason it's doing that, if you do find yourself in safety, meaning like it's safe to start that business, it's safe to use my voice, it's safe to be seen, it's safe to be vulnerable, it's safe to take up space, it's safe to have desires or whatever. That's because your database has information about how that wasn't safe in the past. So every time you go to step towards something similar in your present life, the threat detector says that's not safe. And so part of understanding this nervous system, or why nervous system regulation is so important, is because if we have a database filled with experiences in the past where people weren't safe, being seen wasn't safe, belonging wasn't safe. Being in my body wasn't safe, being present wasn't safe and so on and so forth.
0:23:48.89 → 0:24:30.48
Anytime something similar happens in my current life, my nervous system via my threat detector is going to say that's not safe and an immediate occurrences. I experienced what's called Dysregulation or one of those three states of self protection. I just did a lot of talking, I could explain the state of regulation, but I hope that's beginning to make sense for folks of why we experience this. Thanks Sarah, I really appreciate all of that. And as you were talking, the thing that really struck me is that understanding that is such a portal to compassion both towards ourselves, but also to other people and particularly people who we might be in relationship with.
0:24:30.66 → 0:25:40.26
As you were describing the experience of that dorsal state, I couldn't help but think of that classic anxious avoidant dance and how for a lot of anxious people who spend a lot of time in that sympathetic I've got to do something, do something, do something very activated mobilised state. And those protective mechanisms of moving towards and if they are with a more avoidant leaning partner who tends towards more of a dorsal response of this I'm out of options. Just like how can I vacate? Because I feel kind of defenceless against this and how those responses can just be really at odds and from each person's perspective. The other person's response is such a cue for danger for the person in sympathetic who's desperate for engagement and connection via even if it's via conflict, the person whose system is taking them out, that feels really dangerous and so can just trigger an escalation.
0:25:40.40 → 0:26:26.02
But for the person who's endorsel, who feels like there's a lion coming towards them, it's just impossible. And so I think that it's so useful for people to understand not only their own system but to start to be more attuned to the cues in other people's systems and going, okay, what might be going on for them? How might they be experiencing me as well as what's going on in my system and what do I need? Yeah, it is so important to understand that. That's why I say I do a lot of somatic attachment work and the foundation of all of it that I quickly realised in my work around the nervous system is oh well, you can't do attachment work unless you're doing nervous system work.
0:26:26.20 → 0:27:05.07
The way that we attach is entirely based in our nervous system which is why for any listener who's read like for example, the book Attached, maybe it's the most famous one although I like John Bowlby's book, I mean, both are great but that's a little more dense. But anyway, you read a book and you're like oh, that you got an AHA moment. Ah, that makes sense. But it doesn't actually create any change in your life because that all in books are wonderful but they're cognitive meaning it's giving me understanding of things. But it's really important to understand about your nervous system and how you show up in your relationships is your nervous system is subcortical and that means it lives in your body, not in your thinking brain.
0:27:05.20 → 0:27:48.25
Your nervous system does not understand a verbal language because it doesn't reside where your verbal thinking, your prefrontal cortex, which is in your brain, resides. And this is why we can learn a lot of things but then it doesn't actually affect change in our lives. So the more that we can become get in the driver's seat of our nervous system, the more it changes everything. And what you mentioned about having compassion for or at the very least understanding for what's happening in other people's systems is so imperative because just to quickly name for listeners, here how intricate this system is that I just described. Remember, we all have a database, so what happens when we come into relational dynamics?
0:27:48.30 → 0:27:56.98
A lot of people have had this experience where you meet someone and you're like I feel like. I've known them forever. I'm so drawn to them. I am so attracted to them. I don't know why.
0:27:57.03 → 0:28:15.87
I feel like, how could I possibly live life without them, even though you've only known them for three weeks. And here is why. There's an actual reason for that. Remember, we all have a database, right? And the threat detector's job, it's really its job is to not only suss out danger for you, but it's to say, what does this remind me of?
0:28:15.94 → 0:28:24.60
That's what it's doing all the time. What does this tree remind me of? What does Sarah's voice remind me of? What does the sun right now remind me of? What does this man remind me of?
0:28:24.62 → 0:28:37.92
This woman, this person? And so on and so forth. Anyway, so it looks to the database. So when it comes to love and relationships, guess what it looks to first? It looks to the database and says, what intel do we have on that?
0:28:38.02 → 0:29:02.09
And it looks to your earliest childhood experiences and says, that's the information we have on what love is. Okay? Love is the experience of let's say I'm anxiously attached. My experience of love is I'm just making a possibility up. I have a caregiver who is preoccupied with working all the time or they are not fully available to see me.
0:29:02.24 --> 0:29:11.91
That's what love is. So that's all our system knows. That's what love is. So guess what happens? I meet this person and they are what we would call the word workaholic.
0:29:11.96 → 0:29:48.02
They are really preoccupied with their work. And so my system says, oh, I feel like I've known you forever. I'm so drawn to you because neuroception is saying, you remind me of my childhood and that is what love is. Now, the other person's, Neuroceptive response says, I've got a database too, and in it I have let's say I had a caregiver who was not regulated themselves and whose young parts were looking for me to help them. Maybe the relational dynamic was my mother was looking for me to emotionally soothe her instead of looking to her partner.
0:29:48.16 → 0:29:55.47
And so that's what I have on this database. And she was really anxious a lot. And then I meet you. Whoa. That's what I know.
0:29:55.62 → 0:30:23.98
That is what I'm drawn to. So now we have one person who's avoidant, one person who is anxiously attached coming together, which is the most common combination. Why are they coming together, though, based on what's in that database? That's the whole thing. So we come together and guess what transpires when an occurrence happens, like, let's say an argument occurs, my threat detector says, what intel do I have on arguments?
0:30:24.01 → 0:30:43.13
I'll give another example. The avoidant person says, whoa, I have information about how people harm you. People hurt you. They either emotionally hurt you or they physically hurt you. And so what I learned to do as a child was become an island because there was no one to help me or the people that were there to help me were dangerous.
0:30:43.25 → 0:31:00.93
And so when a fight occurs, my system I'm not doing that. My system takes over like autopilot, and it says, my love, I have to pull you to the island. People aren't safe. And this is reminding me of that. And in a millisecond, we're pulled to that island where we retreat, we shut off.
0:31:01.00 → 0:31:25.85
We feel like we just have to get away now. The anxiously attached person says, whoa, I have intel on being abandoned as a child. And so my system says, I need to do whatever I can to make you stay. And all of a sudden, my sympathetic system comes in and says, what did I need to do back then? Oh, disregard your own needs, disregard your own feelings, say things, just be good, and maybe we can get them to come back.
0:31:25.92 → 0:31:56.19
So we say things like, oh, it doesn't matter, I don't even care. Let's just come back into connection, because I just need us to be connected in order for me to be okay. And in that experience, I call it the island and the speedboat. So the more I go to my island, the more I get in my speedboat and drive to your island, which makes me want to dig a hole in my island and go underneath the island to get away from you, and I want to get even closer to you. And we're in this dynamic which is all rooted in Dysregulation and what's happening in those receptacles.
0:31:56.32 → 0:32:15.13
And not only that, but when this occurs, we essentially are transported back to younger parts of ourselves. So we're no longer in that adult self. It's whatever was in that receptacle. Our threat detector says, this reminds me I was eight. So it's as if we time travel back to being eight.
0:32:15.28 → 0:32:33.95
And this is why, if you've ever been in a situation where you feel like, small, scared, out of control in a relationship, and then later when you feel better, you think, I can't believe I did that. I can't believe I said that. What was going on? Well, it wasn't you. It was your nervous system and a younger part of you.
0:32:34.07 → 0:33:00.35
And so the foundation of our relational experiences, really the foundation of everything, is this nervous system, because that's what's driving how we show up in our relational dynamics. And the more to your point is we can see, oh, them going to their island actually has nothing to do with me. It has to do with what happened to them in the past. And going to that island in the past was the right choice. It was the best choice that they could possibly find.
0:33:00.44 → 0:33:31.28
But that doesn't mean they don't care about me, love me, and so on and so forth. Or this person that's coming towards me doesn't want to control me. They want to feel in control because it can be experienced as that person wants to control me? No, it's because they feel so out of control inside that's why that's occurring, that those behavioural responses. So the more we can see that, the more that it decreases or at least doesn't increase the activation we feel about like wow, you don't care about me or you are trying to suffocate me or whatever.
0:33:31.41 → 0:34:20.58
We can see where it's actually rooted in and not only that, but can say hey, we need to pause and regulate our nervous systems before trying to have this conversation because otherwise we won't even be able to hear each other when we're dysregulated. Our thinking brain isn't working, which is why it feels like you're going round and round in a conversation without hearing each other because you're not hearing each other when you're dysregulating. Yeah, I love that. And I think the image of the speedboat and the island will really resonate with people for me. I've done a lot of work on it, but certainly Lean anxious, and the urgency when you're needing to reach someone that feels like they're slipping away and the sense of emotional abandonment in those moments can feel.
0:34:21.43 → 0:35:16.84
I think the story that a lot of anxious people will relate to is how could you abandon me in this moment when I need you most, when I am escalated and emotional and I'm reaching for you? But it is that thing of the tendency to make the other person's behaviour about you when it really has very little to do with you. And I think that the more we can see that try and step into an observer kind of role, not only does that help us to make better decisions and to regulate and create the space to do that, but I think that for me, at least, even the act of pausing to go, oh, okay, look, I'm getting really activated. That in and of itself is settling to my system because it feels like you're less consumed by the experience and you're able to witness yourself in it a little more. I'd be curious to get your take on in that example.
0:35:17.45 → 0:35:57.23
What would you say to people who feel like they spin around in that cycle? Pretty reliably, which I think without the knowledge and the tools is likely where you will go if those are the patterns in your relationship. You mentioned pausing and that's certainly the advice that I give people is nothing good is going to come of that when one or both of you is dysregulated and likely if one of you is, the other will follow soon thereafter. So pausing I think is a really big one. I think again, for anxious people they may tell themselves the story of that's just giving the avoidant person what they want and what about me?
0:35:57.27 → 0:36:30.85
And so my advice is space with boundaries. So let's take a break for 30 minutes and then agree to come back. And I think that that is kind to both people's system. What would you sort of counsel people on how to manage those dynamics and how best to regulate their system so that they can have conversations, challenging conversations, in a safe way? Yeah, well, first I just want to validate for both parties, it feels like life or death because for a child, that when we're born, we don't have the ability to self regulate.
0:36:30.95 → 0:36:56.89
What that essentially means is it is not physically possible for a child to regulate themselves or calm themselves down when they are dysregulated. The crying it out method actually just brings a kid into dorsal. It doesn't actually regulate them. When a child is in that state of distress with no one there to help regulate them. What a child needs is someone who is in what's called their state of ventral.
0:36:56.94 → 0:37:36.91
So that's our state of regulation. Who picks the child up and doesn't get scared about the child's dysregulation, doesn't say, oh my gosh, you're just so scary, but instead holds them, maybe does something somatically like sways and pass them on the back. And what's called mirror neurons, the adult's nervous system, calms the child's nervous system down. Now, what we know in research around attachment shows is we needed that 30% of the time in order for us to have what's called a secure attachment, which means relationships are to distil it down, filled with relative ease. For us, we feel safe in them, we feel safe with distance and also closeness.
0:37:37.07 → 0:38:04.20
Now, for many of us, we did not get that. And so as a result, what transpires is therein lies the anxious attachment or avoidant or disorganised. So what occurs is when we have a rupture or an argument occur, it's as if we've time travelled to being that infant again. And so you used really interesting words like how could you do this to me? Or those weren't your exact words, but essentially, how could you pull away or do this to me when I need you most?
0:38:04.33 → 0:38:28.67
And what I want listeners, if you say you find yourself saying that that is a young part of you who is saying that to your caregiver, not to your partner. I know it seems like you're saying it to your partner, but where is that rooted in? It is rooted in your childhood. It actually has nothing to do with your caregiver. Not that we don't not and I'm not letting someone off the hook for just disappearing, but why is this here in the first place?
0:38:28.79 → 0:39:08.80
Because a young part of you is present in your body. And here's the thing, I think it's just maybe hard to hear, but really important for listeners to hear that there is no amount of an adult in our lives picking that young part of us up that will ever be enough. So if you're looking for your partner to change and be this really perfect partner, it still wouldn't be enough. My friend and the reason being is because only we can become what I call the primary parent to our young parts. But most people are looking for their partner to pick the young part up, rescue me, save me from this experience.
0:39:09.25 → 0:39:44.93
And it can be helpful for a little bit like a band aid, but it'll just come back again and again. And now I'm in a codependent dynamic. And what we can do, and what I want you to know that this can change, is the more you regulate your nervous system and you become what I call a competent protector. So the adult self, you've got the adult self of you present. What we can begin to do is when we notice this younger part showing up, I can do things to help them to regulate, just like I would with a scared kid, the same exact thing, so that I'm turning towards them and picking them up.
0:39:45.02 → 0:40:09.81
And then my partner can be what I call the secondary parent. So it's not that we don't want our partners help, but not that we're looking for them to rescue us anymore, because they can't ever do it. It's not possible. And that creates a codependent dynamic. So what I would say is, in these dynamics, the work of someone who's anxiously attached is my job is to build my capacity for what's called self regulation.
0:40:10.47 → 0:40:36.98
Co regulation is connecting to other people. To regulate self regulation is learning that I can also regulate with me. And so what I want you to do is what's really important is we don't just practise this when we're in a fight, because that's like if I was a firefighter, but never practised the drills and just went into there's a fire and I had to figure out how to fight fire, I wouldn't be able to do that. They practise, right? So we need to practise when we're not experiencing arguments or fights.
0:40:37.04 → 0:41:06.33
And the practising of someone who's anxiously attached is I want to start seeing, can I do things that can bring my nervous system into regulation? So throughout the day, it might be something like maybe some humming or tapping or swaying or shaking or I'm going to go on a walk by myself. And I've got lots I'm sure you do, to Stephanie. Lots of therapeutic tools that I give folks that are somatic in nature. But there's different things we can do to show our nervous system, hey, I'm safe, and we do that ourselves.
0:41:06.46 → 0:41:35.11
So we want to build our capacity to do that, so that when we're in a relationship, we can tolerate space. And we know that regardless of what's happening in the relationship, I've got you little parts, I'm not going anywhere. So someone who is avoidant, your job is to practise coming off the island, that's not going to feel good at first. So that's called practising co regulation. And we want to do that outside of arguments, like, can I step towards closeness, can I step towards intimacy?
0:41:35.16 → 0:41:47.76
When someone says, how was your day? Instead of just saying it was fine, how was yours? Expand on that. How was your day? When someone says, hey, I want to share vulnerably or intimately with you, instead of saying, how can we do that later?
0:41:47.81 → 0:42:14.90
Can I lean into that a little bit? Or asking for help and so on and so forth, can I lean off the island going on a walk with a friend? And so on and so forth, all of that shows my system connection is safe. So that is what I would say the most important. That's what I focus on because otherwise I'm trying to put a fire out or put a bandaid on without ever practising or building my capacity, which means I'll never be able to change the dynamic.
0:42:14.96 → 0:42:41.50
So that is the most important. And then during the actual argument or experience of a rupture, what I recommend is, number one, remembering this is their nervous system, not them. This is their nervous system right now. And a younger part of them is present, just like a younger part of me is present. And that when you can talk about that, when you're both regulated like, hey, what do you notice happens for you?
0:42:41.60 → 0:43:02.24
And here's what happens for me. And even having a code word, like it doesn't have to be even a big code word. It just could be a phrase like, I think we're both no longer in regulation, or I'm in my speedboat, are you on your island? Or whatever, you can use terms like that, that clue you into. We're both dysregulated.
0:43:02.35 → 0:43:36.83
And so what's necessary is and what I recommend is the avoidant person who needs to go to the island. Otherwise, if they try to force themselves to stay, they're just going to become more shut down. And so them saying and having a word that they say or a phrase they say, I love you and I need to go to the island right now so that I can get myself back. So what I'm doing is I'm extending to you a connection. I love you and I need to go to my island and let's Cheque in in 20 minutes or whatever and see if we can talk about it now.
0:43:36.92 → 0:44:12.41
And the sympathetic or anxiously attached person, your job, which is very important, is to see what can I do to tolerate the space and needed for you to begin to be able to tolerate that space. And how can I comfort these young parts of me which can include connecting with other people as well during that time. And then I just like to say, if the 20 minutes, if the avoidant person is still not back online and regulated, then we want to say, okay, can we try again in 20 minutes? We don't want to say we have to now. So sympathetic person is probably going to say no, but you said 20 minutes.
0:44:12.53 → 0:44:35.89
And the problem with that is if our nervous systems don't have choice, we need choice, it creates Dysregulation. So if we feel like we're trapped in a cage or we're cornered, we will just become Dysregulated. So that we need to have that consistent checking in, but not that like you have to now because that will just increase Dysregulation too. Thank you for that. I love what you say.
0:44:35.93 → 0:45:10.27
And that point I think is really important, that for an anxious person, you're not regulating for them, you're regulating for you. And I think that particularly when the experience or the story might be, what do I need? I need connection with them. That's a quite disempowering place to live, right? To not be able to give ourselves any of that, to be able to self source a sense of safety, to be solely reliant on, I have to tether to this person, otherwise I'm not going to be okay.
0:45:10.47 → 0:45:46.02
And so I think that as you describe being able to be with the discomfort of space and increasing our capacity to hold that, that's not just giving them what they want. That is really important work for you and building your capacity. Yeah, it is the work for someone. It is the most important thing. And that's the beautiful thing I think about all healing work is something one of my mentors, Peter Levine, says, the creator of somatic experiencing.
0:45:46.13 → 0:46:06.20
He says it's never too late to have the childhood we deserve. There's other folks who say similar sayings, but what that really means is the more I do trauma work and somatic work, the more it's very clear to me time is not linear. We are travelling time all the time, anytime you're activated. And it doesn't have to do with there's not present danger in your life. That's a clue.
0:46:06.23 → 0:46:34.74
You've travelled time. In our relationships, we're travelling to the past all the time. So if we can travel back there, meaning I feel like I'm eight years old again or two years old again, then we can also bring our adult selves back to those young parts and finally give them what our caregivers couldn't give them. And when that occurs, my friend, when that happens, we imprint a new childhood experience. And as a result of that, we get what I call an internal secure attachment.
0:46:34.93 → 0:47:04.72
Now my young parts no longer feel unsafe and they no longer are choosing partners or staying in relationships that don't really serve them because they're safe with me. So now I'm making choices in my relationship based on my truth, instead of making choices or with partners based on survival. And it makes everything a whole heck of a lot easier and it all comes within. So yeah, that work is not for the other person, that is for you. Yeah, I love that.
0:47:04.74 → 0:47:31.31
And I think that emphasis on choice is so important. It's like when we're in fear, we feel like we don't have choice. It's like it's life or death, and I'm going to be trapped, and I'm going to be stuck. No matter where you sit on the spectrum, that tends to be the undertone of that experience and resourcing our systems and reminding ourselves we're not there anymore. We're here and now, and we have choice.
0:47:31.81 → 0:48:07.45
We have agency. It always feels like it's me or them. It's my way or their way, right or wrong, villain, victim. It's like, what are the million other possibilities that sit in between those extremes? And I think the more time we can spend in regulation, the more steps we can take towards that, the more those possibilities become available to us, and we can start taking steps towards those because I think that messy middle ground is really where healthy relationships live, rather than at battling between extremes.
0:48:08.11 → 0:48:20.43
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Beautifully said. So I would love to ask you just one more question before we wrap up, if you have time. Something that I get asked a lot is around self trust.
0:48:20.50 → 0:49:06.17
And for people who have really struggled in relationships in the past, perhaps they have really been hurt. That threat detector is very sensitive, and so people might go, okay, when I become really activated, I'm so convinced that there's something wrong, how do I know if that's my system legitimately warning me of a real threat or whether I'm being paranoid, I'm reacting to nothing. How do I know the difference? And what would be your advice for people in navigating that experience and how to respond to that? Well, when we are in that, our system is always going to think that whatever we are experiencing is true and based on what's happening presently.
0:49:06.25 → 0:49:29.44
And here's why. Because when, as I mentioned before, the threat detector, how that works. Like, let's say you haven't heard back from your partner, they're 30 minutes late to getting home, and you had a caregiver who had an affair at work, or even an ex partner who had an affair at work. And you know that your spouse is really fond of a coworker in a very, maybe appropriate way. But we're fond of people.
0:49:29.57 → 0:49:53.25
And all of a sudden, guess what your system does? It looks to the receptacle, and it says, that means they're having an affair and I can't trust them. And this is really bad. And in a millisecond, you're no longer going to be in the present moment thinking of your partner, but you're going to be with that ex partner that cheated on you, or you're going to be in that childhood with that caregiver who had multiple affairs and was never around. And so I'm not in the present moment anymore.
0:49:53.30 → 0:50:11.31
I am back in that experience. And if I asked you in those past experiences, hey, is this truly happening right now? You would say, yeah, it is happening because it was happening. And so that's what occurs when we're dysregulated. So we don't want to ask ourselves, what is my truth right now when we are in that heightened state of Dysregulation?
0:50:11.47 → 0:50:34.13
Instead, what I want you to do is say to yourself, my whole job right now is to get regulated. And I need to do we would need a lot more time to talk about how to regulate. But regulation is I like to say it's a game of show, not tell. We cannot talk our way into it. We have to show our nervous system that we are safe and we are in the present moment because it doesn't understand a verbal language.
0:50:34.18 → 0:50:59.42
Which is why if you've been anxious and you told yourself, just calm down or you're fine, doesn't help. But there are things we can do to regulate. And then when you're feeling more like you, which means you're regulated, you feel present here, capable, able, which might be later that day or the next day, I want you to ask yourself a simple thing and just say, did my reaction match the circumstance of what was happening? Did my reaction match the circumstance? Lovingly ask yourself that.
0:50:59.52 → 0:51:21.90
Not with like, talking yourself out of reality, but just curious. And if I said to myself, you know what, that level of panic didn't seem to match the 30 minutes, or my level of rage didn't seem to match the 30 minutes. Now doesn't let them off the hook. Feeling annoyed or frustrated would match the circumstance. But that level, did that match?
0:51:22.35 → 0:51:38.76
No. So then I want to ask myself, okay, what does this remind me of? If I think about this, have I ever felt this way before? Because that's clueing you into what this is predominantly actually about. If you say, oh, it feels like when I was a little kid, that's who's showing up.
0:51:38.78 → 0:52:04.40
That's what this is predominantly about. That's important because that's the part that needs your help. And then I want to ask yourself, okay, so based on this adult me, that's present now, what do I feel about what happened? Because that's going to tell you how much of the response is actually based in the present. And if you say, that's not okay, yeah, that really isn't okay to me, and I need to know what's going on more or I need to know where they are.
0:52:04.42 → 0:52:34.73
You can't just disappear when you said you're going to be home 30 minutes earlier. And then I can communicate. That need for myself is really helpful so that I can tease out, what's about the past? What's about the present? And then lastly, what we want to do with our adult selves is I invite folks like in that example infidelity to want you to write down, I call it an evidence journal, all the actual data you have of your partner being a safe person, that they're not like that partner in the past or that caregiver.
0:52:34.81 → 0:53:04.67
And I want you to go back to it and as you read it, I want you to feel it in your body, all the evidence you have of how they are different, which helps show your system in that database. They're different, they're different, they're different. So those are the exercises that I like to give folks, just basic ones that can help support when having that kind of experience. Thanks, Sarah. I'm sure that will be really helpful for people because I think in those moments, to have a level of an action plan can be really supportive.
0:53:04.85 → 0:53:37.68
Yeah, you're totally right. So important to have. Okay, well, Sarah, thank you so much for joining me. This has been incredibly helpful, informative, insightful. I have no doubt that for everyone listening, it's going to really offer some powerful reframes on understanding yourself, understanding others, and hopefully really empowering you to take steps towards greater self knowing and being able to build our capacity to be with our range of experiences.
0:53:37.74 → 0:53:55.94
And, as we've said, really step into the driver's seat of that, rather than feeling like we're at the mercy of an unruly horse that's bolted. So, Sarah, thank you so much. Where can people find you if they want to go deeper with you and your work and your programmes? Thank you. First of all, thank you so much for having me.
0:53:55.96 → 0:54:17.79
It's been such an honour to be here. And for anyone listening, I'm so glad we could spend this time together. You can find me@sarahbaldwincoaching.com, you can also find me on Instagram. I do lots of free teaching and events on there at Sarabcoaching. Those are the two places and you can find all of my courses and programmes in either place.
0:54:17.99 → 0:54:28.66
Amazing. And we will link all of that in the show notes for anyone who's interested. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me. Everyone who's listening, thank you so much for joining us. I'll see you again next time.
0:54:31.35 → 0:54:53.98
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.