#132 Cultivating Secure Love with Julie Menanno (@thesecurerelationship)
In today's episode, I'm delighted to be joined by Julie Menanno. Julie is a couples therapist, best known for her hugely popular instagram account @thesecurerelationship where she offers nuanced and insightful takes on attachment dynamics and how couples can overcome negative cycles to build secure relationships. She has just released her first book, Secure Love, which offers couples a roadmap for building thriving relationships that last.
In today's episode, I'm delighted to be joined by Julie Menanno. Julie is a couples therapist, best known for her hugely popular instagram account @thesecurerelationship where she offers nuanced and insightful takes on attachment dynamics and how couples can overcome negative cycles to build secure relationships. She has just released her first book, Secure Love, which offers couples a roadmap for building thriving relationships that last.
Our conversation covers a lot of ground, including:
A deeper look at the fear of abandonment in anxious attachment
Key challenges of avoidant attachment
Negative cycles in anxious-avoidant relationships
What to do when one partner doesn't want to go to therapy
The importance of validating your partner's emotions (even if you disagree with their position)
Julie's tips (as a mum of 6!) for raising secure kids
To connect with Julie Menanno:
Follow Julie on Instagram @thesecurerelationship
Questions for Discussion & Reflection
Reflect on your current or past relationships. Can you identify moments where you felt an emotional safety net was either present or lacking? How did this impact your communication and connection with your partner?
Consider the concept of first and second order change discussed by Julie. Have there been times in your relationship where consistent effort to change was clear, but a shift in the environmental context was necessary to see growth? How did you navigate this, or how might you approach it in the future?
When encountering triggers within your relationship, do you tend to react immediately, or do you take a moment to pause and observe your reactions? Think about a recent situation and how your response may have influenced the outcome.
Growing up, what was the attitude towards conflict and emotions in your household? In what ways do you see this shaping your approach to handling tension and disagreements in your adult relationships?
Julie highlighted the importance of validating each partner's concerns in a relationship. Recall a time when you felt your concerns were fully acknowledged by your partner. How did it affect your feelings and the resolution of the issue?
Upon facing adversity and conflicts in your relationships, do you notice a drive to immediately repair and resolve issues, or do you recognize the potential value in the struggle? How might embracing the messiness contribute to relationship growth?
Think about the last big fight you had in a relationship. In what ways did it provide an opportunity for growth and a deeper understanding of your fears and vulnerabilities? What lessons did you take away from the experience?
Reflect on Julie’s encouragement to recognise and address feelings during everyday activities. How might integrating this practice into your daily routine enhance your overall emotional wellbeing and the quality of your relationships?
Recall a time when you were navigating anxiety or big emotions. How did you handle that moment, and what strategies did you use to trust in your capacity to manage those feelings effectively?
Parenting styles can greatly influence our attachment patterns. Reflect on Julie's parenting approach after finding traditional advice lacking. How has the upbringing you experienced influenced your perception of emotional safety and attachment in your own parenting or in your intimate relationships?
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Check out my couples course, Secure Together (& save $200 with the code SECURE)
Save $150 on my Higher Love break-up course with the code PHOENIX
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
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Episode Transcript
Stephanie Rigg [00:00:04]:
For today's episode, I am so excited to be joined by Julie Manano, who many of you will know as the brains and the heart behind the hugely popular Instagram account, the secure relationship. Julie is a couple's therapist and she's just published her first book, Secure Love, which is now out and available. Julie is such an incredible source of wisdom on all things attachment and by far my favourite content creator in this area. So I was so, so delighted to have her on the show and I'm really looking forward to sharing this conversation with you, which is all about how couples can use an understanding of themselves and attachment and these dynamics to overcome the cycles that they get stuck in and how you can really start building bridges towards a more secure love with one another. So I have no doubt that this conversation will be hugely helpful for so many of you and I'm really looking forward to sharing it with you.
Stephanie Rigg [00:01:34]:
Julie, welcome. It's so great to have you.
Julie Menanno [00:01:37]:
Hi, Stephanie. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me.
Stephanie Rigg [00:01:41]:
So I absolutely want to talk about your new book, which I'm very excited to receive and read when it comes out. But before we jump into that, I would really love. I'm sure a lot of people listening follow you online, your account, and appreciate your content as much as I do. Something that I really value in your work is that you do such a great job at articulating the fears and the vulnerabilities that sit underneath the attachment styles and the behaviours that we see outwardly, which it's easy to be critical of or judgmental of some of the ways that these fears and vulnerabilities manifest outwardly, particularly when we're in relationship with someone and we're on either side of that.
Julie Menanno [00:02:34]:
Oh, yeah, so hard.
Stephanie Rigg [00:02:37]:
Maybe you could share for people. I mean, I think most people listening will be familiar with each of the attachment styles, but kind of going a layer deeper and sharing. What are some of those deeper fears, which oftentimes I think one of the beauties of your content is some of the things you put words to are things that people might not necessarily be consciously aware of very much in terms of their own. What is driving their behaviour so maybe you could just give a little bit of a feel for what sits underneath a lot of those behaviours for each of the insecure attachment styles.
Julie Menanno [00:03:13]:
Well, one thing that comes to mind is when we talk about anxious attachment, most people are kind of familiar with the idea that anxious attachment comes from this fear of abandonment. And when we hear the word abandonment, our minds just sort of go right to physical abandonment. Right. Which can be a real fear for someone with an anxious attachment, just that physical distance and not having lots of contact with their partner through the phone or through text or. However, because that physical proximity helps them feel safe. Like, if you're right there in front of me, I have this sense of safety in my body that you're not gone. Right. But there are also a lot of people with anxious attachment who actually don't really mind not being physically with their partner all the time.
Julie Menanno [00:04:06]:
And what they actually fear is emotional abandonment, which is probably a bigger piece of the puzzle for a lot of people, which is emotional abandonment is feeling emotionally validated, getting messages that your emotions are too much, or your emotions are unreasonable, or your emotions are illogical, or your emotions don't matter to me, which is huge. So what's really going to get someone with anxious attachment triggered is less. Well, I don't want to say less. For some people, we're going to see all of these posts about if they don't text back, things like that. Right. But there's this other piece of it where you hear from your partner, you're just making things up, or you know what? You need to deal with your feelings on your own, or you're seeing it all wrong, or you're just being dramatic. And so that's going to really trigger the heart of someone with an anxious attachment profoundly because of growing up in environments where those were the repeated messages, and that is emotional abandonment. And if you look at things like borderline personality disorder, which is this really extreme version of what I consider attachment insecurity, the only thing that's really common in studies to the childhood environment of people who develop borderline personality disorder, what would you think it would be? Serious abuse, something like this. But it's emotional invalidation. Just an environment of emotional invalidation is enough to create major problems.
Stephanie Rigg [00:06:01]:
Yeah, I love that you talk about emotional abandonment. It's something that I've spoken to before and I think that I can relate to it. Like, I lean more anxious and having that fear of, like, are you going to be there when I need you? Even though you're physically here, this sense of am I going to be left alone with these big feelings? Right. And I think that can be really terrifying. And when we see expressions of that various cycles in anxious avoidant dynamics, where you might have someone on the other side who goes the other way and withdraws or pulls away or becomes very defensive, then having that sense of I'm scrambling to try and get engagement from you. And even in this moment when my emotions are getting really big and I'm visibly distressed for you to still be kind of denying me what I need, that can feel like fuel on the fire. Right. It's no secret that I need you in this moment. So surely if you loved me, you would be responding to me the way I want you to respond. And I think, as you say, that can be really viscerally terrifying distressing for someone with more anxious attachment.
Julie Menanno [00:07:20]:
Definitely. And then we have this other side, which is the person who's not showing up. Right. And so what does it look like? It looks like they don't care. They're disengaged. It's irrelevant. I'm irrelevant to them. But really what's happening is they're getting overwhelmed with I don't know what to do. I never learned how to help myself in these emotionally hard places, so I really don't know how to help a partner. And the way that I did learn to help myself was to shove my feelings away, just make them go away or go into this fix it place in my brain. And so what I know to do to help you is what I've learned to do to help me. And really not recognising the impact of, well, you should just see it differently, or let's just do whatever I have to do to make these big emotions go away that I don't know how to deal with. And then eventually they get overwhelmed to the point that none of my strategies are working here, which doesn't make sense because they work with me.
Stephanie Rigg [00:08:27]:
Everything I say or don't say makes this worse. Right? Yes, exactly.
Julie Menanno [00:08:33]:
So then they shut down. It's like, where does this start? A chicken or the egg? It doesn't start anywhere, it just is as far as way they're interacting with each other.
Stephanie Rigg [00:08:46]:
Yeah. And it's something that I take very seriously in my work is not kind of creating a hierarchy of these different expressions and not, I think, particularly avoidant attachment gets a really bad rap in a lot of online content. And it's something that I'm really quite passionate about balancing that and giving people more kind of inroads into understanding that in a compassionate way and recognising everything that you just articulated makes perfect sense. Right. In the environment in which it sprung from, that's a really adaptive response.
Julie Menanno [00:09:31]:
It really is empowering. I think for somewhere along the line I'm not exactly sure where, but anxious partners got this idea that they have these needs, the avoidance can't show up for these needs and so it must be the avoidance that's the problem. But how disempowering is that? Right? To think that you really can't do anything, that you're just kind of a victim to what this other person is doing. So I love that you said you balance this out because it's so important because when anxious partners really start to learn there's a lot of work they can be doing to shift the environment, I think a much more empowering message.
Stephanie Rigg [00:10:11]:
I agree. I think that as much as it might be a hard pill to swallow for people to recognise their part in the dynamic and what they need to take responsibility for, I think that it's ultimately much more empowering place to be than kind of throwing your hands up and saying well, you just don't meet my needs or you always do this or I'm doing all the work and you're the roadblock. And I think coupled with the tendency for anxious folks to persist in light of all of those criticisms or judgments it's not like they're reaching a decision of this isn't working for me and walking away. It's like, this isn't working for me, but I'm going to sit here and protest about it.
Julie Menanno [00:10:53]:
Exactly. I'm going to keep watering the plant with gasoline.
Stephanie Rigg [00:10:56]:
Yeah, exactly. And then feeling really frustrated and overwhelmed. Does this keep happening to me?
Julie Menanno [00:11:03]:
She can water the plant with gasoline?
Stephanie Rigg [00:11:05]:
Yeah, absolutely. So maybe we can pivot to talking about your book secure love, which is probably by the time this episode comes out, will be out in the world. So anyone listening, please go ahead and order a copy. If you haven't already. Tell us about the book. What's kind of the premise? What do you take people through?
Julie Menanno [00:11:25]:
Well, I wrote it for a lot of different reasons and every time I'm interviewed I give another different reason. Whatever comes to mind. But I have seen a lot of success in doing the type of work that I do with couples, working with attachment theory and my private practise and when I started my Instagram account, which is where I started putting out information, where I was starting from is, look, there are a lot of people out there who just don't have access to couples therapy and don't have access to quality couples therapy. And how can I kind of help people that are in that position in the best way possible through social media platform and kind of tie attachment theory altogether? Like, let's put it into context. You have an anxious attachment, you get your partner has an avoidant attachment. Now, how does it show up between the two of you? And more importantly, how is it creating these negative communication cycles, which is basically the anxious attachment partner being anxious and the avoidant attachment partner being avoidant? And now they're reinforcing all of these insecurities. They're speaking in a way that can go from kind of a normal conversation into a big fight and they're not getting problem solved. Those kinds of negative cycles block actual resolution to our talk about finances or our talk about parenting or sex or politics or whatever it is.
Julie Menanno [00:12:57]:
And in the process, they're also hurting each other emotionally and reinforcing the already insecure attachment. So I'm kind of leading with, hey, here's attachment theory. Here's a very detailed description of anxious attachment, the childhood environment, how it looks in adulthood, here's how it shows up in these negative cycles. Here's what you can do to interrupt them when they happen, here's what you can do to prevent them, here's what you can do to repair them. And then just lots of practical skills, lots of actual words, scripts, if you don't have the words and you haven't learned these words yet, it's just a concept. And it can be really hard for people to put concepts into actions, especially in these moments when they're kind of like on the spot and you got to say it the right way. And then some couples are blocked by attachment injuries, which is something I have to work within my practise too, which is kind of like these added layers of attachment wounds, major breaches of trust. Moments when you really needed your partner to show up for you and they weren't there.
Julie Menanno [00:14:10]:
And a lot of times these old wounds are blocking their ability to even put New practises into place, put new communication into place, because there's all this resentment and mistrust built up. So then I'm going to kind of say, hey, here are some ideas, here are the way that healing conversations go. Here's what a healing conversation looks like. Now that you've kind of learned to do that outside of these negative cycles. Let's see if we can start healing some of this, which is only going to make the work easier, then just goes into just different other considerations, like mental illness, sex, substance abuse, anything that's kind of layers to relationships that are more than standard fighting about money. And then I have a whole chapter of scripts. Just, you need to bring up a hard topic to your partner. Here are some things to say.
Julie Menanno [00:15:08]:
Your partner doesn't want to go to therapy. Here are some things to say and just multiple examples just to give people the words. And it's not just the words, we need to make words our own. But I also break down the phrases into elements, which is, this is why I validated at the beginning of this sentence, this is why I ended it in this way. So if you're not wanting to use my words, and sometimes they aren't even my words, they're just as neutral as I can be for people who are reading the book that all speak from in different ways, different cultures, it's just like, well, let's just help you integrate the elements here.
Stephanie Rigg [00:15:50]:
Yeah, and I'm sure that's immensely helpful for people who, as you say, just don't have that reference point. Maybe they grew up in a family system where things weren't talked about or they weren't talked about in a productive way, and you've just not had that relational environment either directly or you've never had it modelled. So I think that having those scripts can be so helpful. Something that comes up for me, as you say, that is, I hear from a lot of people with more anxious patterns who very much want the scripts. And something that I'm always minded to add in as a caveat is here's a script and you kind of have to surrender a little to the messiness of being in relationship. And I think that there can be this sense of if I say the perfect thing in the perfect way, then I'll get the outcome that I want. And if I do my part, then you have to do your part, you have to respond in the way that I want you to. And if you don't, then I'll go straight back into, well, you're. The problem is that something that you.
Julie Menanno [00:16:57]:
See, I do address this pretty extensively in the book, which is this change really does need to come from your heart. If it's coming from a place of, well, I'm only doing this because I really want to control what you're going to do, then it's really not change at all. So we really have to shift that heart place, which is why I put the scripts at the end of the book, not the beginning.
Stephanie Rigg [00:17:20]:
Yeah, I think it is. It's funny it can almost be like a covert extension of the cycle when it is.
Julie Menanno [00:17:29]:
That's perfectly worded.
Stephanie Rigg [00:17:34]:
Rather than shifting it, there can be ways that that cycle can come back in. And I think that that is a really challenging edge for people. Something that I still notice come up and I have to keep tabs on is that story of like, one person trying extending the olive branch, and then if they still get some sort of defensiveness or their partner doesn't immediately become a different person and respond totally differently, then it can spiral back. What would you say to people in that, like, kind of realistic expectations around how this change happens?
Julie Menanno [00:18:13]:
Well, I do address, this is another topic I do address extensively in the book, which is we're looking at the big picture here. We're looking for the end. This is a long game. When you start this work, there really are no guarantees that you can put the right term coin into the vending machine and push the button and you're going to get the bag of chips. Right. We have to look at it. The mindset has to be one. I really want to be the person.
Julie Menanno [00:18:44]:
I want to be in the world, right. I want to be a person who can communicate myself in the healthiest way possible, can kind of regulate my emotions before I deliver my messages. And if you look at it that way, you can't lose, right? Because every time you try something new that's going to help you grow as a person, that's a win, even if your partner doesn't respond in the exact way that you would like. Now, of course, we all really need and want for the relationship to be close, for our partner to be able to respond openly and positively to our shifts. But in most cases, that's not going to happen right away. It's a matter of environmental shift. Second order change. So first order change is I'm just going to start delivering my messages in a new way.
Julie Menanno [00:19:40]:
Second order change is when the environment starts to become new and you have to do a lot of consistent, repetitive first order change before second order change starts to become a natural way of being for both partners. And most of the couples out there that are working, they aren't necessarily working parallel to each other, growing at the exact same rate. So your job as a partner isn't to kind of make your partner grow. You want your partner to grow. You crave your partner's growth. You need your partner's growth for closeness in the relationship. But your real job is to do your part to clean up the environment. And when we have clean environments, and if one partner can start kind of getting the ball rolling on that process and putting emotional safety into the relationship even when the other partner isn't able to.
Julie Menanno [00:20:38]:
Right. Then people are their best selves when they feel safe. People start to reflect when they feel safe. So if your partner is going. I refuse to go to couples therapy. Couples therapy is for people who are about to get divorced. The typical anxious response to that is, what? You don't care about the relationship? I'm the only one doing the work here. Right.
Julie Menanno [00:20:59]:
Well, that's not really safe because it's not really taking into account the other partner's very legitimate concerns. If the other partner has this idea that if we go to couples therapy, we're going to end up getting divorced. Because I've have numerous examples of people in my life who are divorced who went to couples therapy. So my nervous system is kind of wired around the idea that this wasn't safe. That needs to be held and validated, right? Yes. The ultimate goal is to get the help. I want that for the couple as much as the anxious partner. But that avoidant partner really needs space to hear.
Julie Menanno [00:21:41]:
You know what? That makes sense to me. It really does. I mean, I believe that we should go to couples therapy. We're in a bad spot. We can't seem to get out of it on our own. But at the same time, if you have seen multiple people go to couples therapy and end up getting divorced, of course you don't want to go down that road. That's a threat to you. And I really do get that.
Julie Menanno [00:22:03]:
And then maybe some space later to kind of insert your opinion that is going to lead that avoidant partner into self reflect. There's a much better chance it's going to lead them into self reflection more than just pushing their needs to the side. And then what do people do? They usually double down.
Stephanie Rigg [00:22:23]:
Yeah, that's a lot. Sorry. I think that. No, it's really important, and it's something that I was going to ask you about, like this idea of almost invariably there's one partner who's more proactive and wants to do the work and has certain meanings associated with that. And I think for more anxious people, it's like, because I care about our relationship, it's very important to get ahead of all of the problems. It'd be plugging all of even the tiniest little leaky hole in the boat. Let's talk about it and make a plan and do it all the time. Right.
Stephanie Rigg [00:22:56]:
Process for more avoidant partners, like doing the work can have a very different meaning and association. And it can feel like there's always something wrong, there's always something wrong, and you're always unhappy with me, and we deal with that thing and there's another thing and that can kind of chip away at their sense of self, their sense of like, am I doing a good job as your partner? And when there's just really different conceptions of what it means to do this kind of work in a relationship, what it means about you as individuals, what it means about your connection, then I think when we project what it means for us onto them and go, well, it's important to me to do this work because I care about our relationship so much and you don't want to do it, so you mustn't care about our relationship, then we cause ourselves a lot of pain, right? Whereas I think when we can, and it's so much easier said than done in those moments of hurt and when we're so genuinely invested in a solution that we believe is the right one, but validating someone's resistance or defensiveness and getting curious about it and going, okay, what must this be about for you? What might be underneath your resistance? And how can I feel into that in a way that I can try and understand it rather than just making you wrong for it? Because I think, as you say, it's like if I make you wrong for it, is that going to open you or close you? It's going to close you, and that's going to get me again, we don't want to be always acting from a place of getting what we want from someone. But I think you can also look at that and go, what's the natural consequence of me blaming and shaming you for the way that you genuinely feel about this thing? That's a really big issue. I think someone doubling down, as you say, and digging their heels in, that's a really understandable, natural consequence of feeling like you're under attack. And I can also imagine you as a couple's therapist that a lot of people with more avoidant patterns would have this fear of, like, you're going to kind of drag me to the principal's office and sit me down and have someone just bolster your side of the argument. So I'm going to be under attack on multiple fronts.
Julie Menanno [00:25:23]:
That is so true. And I could have used that as an example, and I definitely use that in the book, too, which is their avoidant partners or anybody who doesn't want to go to therapy, they have really good reasons for not wanting to go it doesn't mean at the end of the day, sometimes the conversation at some point might need to get to look, this relationship is in a really bad spot. It's not working for me and we're either going to have to go or I don't know what, but kind of setting a little bit more of a firmer boundary around it. But we need to just lead with just figuring out and validating your perspective because it makes sense on some level. Even if it's. I don't agree. I don't agree with your opinion. The emotions behind that opinion are always valid. And to your point, when you're approaching it in that way, you are actually working on the relationship.
Stephanie Rigg [00:26:24]:
Yeah. And I think that being able to have that conversation and say I understand why this feels, might feel a certain way for you. For me, I've seen you reference this before and I talk about it as well. It's like shifting into that. This is a problem that we are facing together. Right. The things that exist in our relationship feel bigger than our ability to solve them at the moment. And clearly what we're doing isn't working and it's tiring and it's exhausting speaking to some of those what are likely to be shared experiences of the problem.
Stephanie Rigg [00:27:08]:
This really sucks. I hate feeling disconnected from you all the time. I hate feeling like we're always at each other's throats and I just don't know what to do anymore because it feels like the things we're trying aren't working. And I think that shifting into that immediately just brings the temperature down a bit.
Julie Menanno [00:27:25]:
It really does, like you said, opens people up. And I'm in the business of behaviour change, but I'm in the business of getting to that behaviour change with open hearts. And that comes from communicating in a healthy way. There's no way around it.
Stephanie Rigg [00:27:45]:
Yeah, I think, as you say, it's about creating safety and I think we have to really have that at front of mind at all points in relationship is the thing that I'm about to do. All of my default modes of being in relationship is that likely to contribute to or detract from the safety of the person that I'm in relationship with or the broader environment and culture of our relationship. And I think when we ask ourselves that and kind of pause and cheque in so many of the things that we do on autopilot, if we have more insecure patterns, wouldn't pass that test. They're about our safety, but from a very survival driven place that's probably not well suited to the kind of relationship that we really desire and are trying to build.
Julie Menanno [00:28:36]:
Absolutely, yes. It's actually blocking that relationship that you're longing for.
Stephanie Rigg [00:28:42]:
Yeah. So something that I'm curious about is how much of this work do you think in terms of insecure attachment and repairing and moving towards a more secure relationship? Is that work that you think people can do solely in a relational context, or is it doing your own work and doing it relationally? Is it sort of just whatever presents itself to you is an opportunity to do that work?
Julie Menanno [00:29:12]:
I think so. I think that probably the most effective way to look at it is every interaction with a person. It doesn't really matter if it's the clerk at the market or your partner. Every interaction has the potential to trigger you. Right. And it's your triggers. That's where the work lies, is when you're triggered. And ultimately the work is when you're triggered.
Julie Menanno [00:29:41]:
What are you going to do from that point? Are you going to do something? Are you going to snap at the clerk at the market and then feel bad about yourself for the rest of the day? Are you going to snap at the clerk in the market and then forgive yourself and help yourself make sense of that and think about what you may have done differently? Are you going to take that moment when the clerk snaps at you and step inside and take a moment to go, what's going on with me? Okay, I'm feeling kind of disrespected right now, but I'm going to choose to not show up in a way that I don't want to be in the world. And so if we just take that into the relationship, I mean, every interaction gives you the opportunity to grow. Every interaction. But you don't need to be in a romantic relationship to examine your triggers. We have relationships with family members. We have relationships with friends. I do think it's important to have someone in your life that's a secure attachment for you, whether that's a therapist or someone that you meet at an Al Anon group or a friend who is dependable and can be there for you in kind of a good enough way. When we get that dependability and that support, that emotional support, it's co regulating to our nervous systems, and it does help us grow as a person. Right. But I think it's like you said, you're taking every opportunity to grow and to start doing things differently with your feelings.
Stephanie Rigg [00:31:19]:
Yeah. And a lot of it is really kind of mundane and unglamorous. Right. I think that people expect healing to be this big, dramatic moment of epiphany. But as you say, it's just like chipping away. It's like putting a coin in the jar a day at a time.
Julie Menanno [00:31:38]:
I go on walks with my dog and I start noticing these feelings of, like, I just want this. Normally, I love walking, but sometimes I'll think, I just want to get all this stuff done. I wish this walk was over. And that's an opportunity for me to cheque in and say, what's going on right now? That this sense of urgency is getting in my way of enjoying this walk, enjoying this time out here and being present in nature. And that can help me sort of reground myself. And now the walk becomes this more pleasurable experience, instead of just getting in the way of my compulsive need to work. So how does that show up in my relationship? Well, I have just taken that moment to practise getting into my body, finding that sense of urgency that kind of shows up in my chest, paying attention to that, soothing it, and then kind of being able to go into a different place in my heart where I'm more present. So the next time my husband triggers me, I have had that practise going into my body like that.
Julie Menanno [00:32:45]:
And now, because I've practised that in these other parts of life, it's easier for me to step back and go, all right, what's going on? What about what he said is kind of stirring me up inside? And how can I kind of ground myself and get more present and show up in the healthiest way possible? That's not going to lead us down this rabbit hole of a negative cycle.
Stephanie Rigg [00:33:06]:
Yeah, I love that you share that. I think having that capacity to pause, and it is such a practise just to pause and go, how interesting that this thing is stirring this response in me. And I think as soon as we do that, we sort of rise above it and we create that distance that allows us to observe it, and then maybe gently question it, and it just feels less all consuming and true. And I think when it feels less all consuming and true, then we're not so propelled to just act from that place, which so often, as you say, is this kind of heightened, dysregulated place of I have to do something or something dissociative. But it's just like I lose the ability to kind of bring myself back when I can't see what's happening. And so whether it's like walking the dog or waking up in the morning and noticing some anxiety, being able to turn towards that with a level of, like, interesting. I'm feeling anxious today. What might that be about for me, and what do I need? How can I support myself to feel a little bit more grounded or a little safer in my body or whatever it might be? I think that process is so repairing in our own self relationship. Right. It's like, oh, I can tend to myself in those uncomfortable moments or those big moments.
Julie Menanno [00:34:36]:
Even when what's going on around me might not be perfect, I'm still able to stay with myself, and I think this is important too. And you kind of touched on this earlier, which is, these are subtle shifts. Right. My walk isn't going from, oh, my gosh, I just want to get home to, oh, Zen. This is such a glorious walk. It's just going into this step of a little bit more present. And I think sometimes people do this work and they kind of expect to go from one extreme to the other, and we're really not. We're just trying to feel better. Whatever better looks like it isn't this glamorous big shift. Sometimes it's just more subtle.
Stephanie Rigg [00:35:22]:
Healed.
Julie Menanno [00:35:23]:
Yes.
Stephanie Rigg [00:35:23]:
Congratulations. Yeah, I think that's true. Such a big part of it is, like, changing the way we relate to ourselves and our feelings as well. I work mostly with anxiously attached people, and it's like, on the other side of this work. Does that mean I won't experience anxiety anymore in my relationship? It's like, sadly not. That's a human thing. But I think just, like, having a level of openness to the full spectrum of experience and the messiness of being human and being in relationships. And I think really critically, like, trusting in our capacity to hold ourselves through that and to navigate whatever that might look like rather than fearing the big emotions because we don't trust ourselves to experience them and we think, oh, no, if that happens, I won't be okay. And so I have to just frantically try and prevent any of those, and.
Julie Menanno [00:36:23]:
Then it's just such an exhausting way to live.
Stephanie Rigg [00:36:25]:
Yeah, absolutely. And it's kind of ironically, your whole life becomes about the thing you don't want to happen. Right. It takes up so much bandwidth.
Julie Menanno [00:36:36]:
It does. And then you've created the self fulfilling prophecy because you're having a hard time trusting your future self to handle when things don't go well. And if we can do nothing else in our line of work, it's helping people develop that trust. I can learn to handle my own feelings.
Stephanie Rigg [00:36:58]:
Yeah. And just kind of surrendering to the uncertainty of it. All right. Even secure healthy relationships are going to have hard times and they're going to have bumps in the road. And I think having this very idealistic perception of if I can again, control for all of these things and I'm going to eliminate, totally derisk my relationship to the point where I won't have to ever feel hurt or disappointed or any of those things, I won't ever have trust broken. And that's the bar that we're setting, I think, again, is unrealistic and it's really setting ourselves up to fail.
Julie Menanno [00:37:41]:
We are. And the growth lies in the ruptures. Right. I would never want couples to not have ruptures because that's how they learn to kind of take it to that next step. Maybe this is a topic that we haven't been addressing and so now it's kind of overwhelming our coping mechanisms and we kind of got lost in that negative cycle not being our best selves. Well, coming back together in that repair process opens up space for the vulnerability that was tapped into that might be surrounding this hard topic, deeper layers of our fears and who we are. And it provides opportunity to bond and become stronger.
Stephanie Rigg [00:38:29]:
Yeah, absolutely.
Julie Menanno [00:38:31]:
When I see couples, I see these patterns and they're going along and their relationship is getting better and then all of a sudden, out of nowhere they're feeling so confident and out of nowhere they have this big fight. And almost always, once we work through whatever that big fight was, there's a big growth spurt.
Stephanie Rigg [00:38:53]:
Yeah. I think it's also like giving ourselves a lot of grace and not treating that fight as like, oh, it's a major regression in the trajectory that we've been on. I think recognising the absolute inevitability of these ruptures and kind of working that into our expectation of what it means to be in relationship with someone. Because it's messy. Right. It's like two people coming together with all of their own stuff and kind of two lives and we're trying to build something together. Like, of course we're going to stumble. Of course the person I want to stumble with and get up with and kind of do that messy work of rebuilding, I think that's really the much healthier mindset around it, rather than really.
Julie Menanno [00:39:41]:
Is it so much more realistic and the expectations are more appropriate and it's like, as long as we don't want that messiness to take over the relationship and define the climate, there's so much value in that messiness. So much value. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the partners that I see some of them are actually struggling, not so much because they grew up in a high conflict household, but because they grew up in a no conflict household. So now they get into a relationship with more of a norm, which is, hey, we don't see eye to eye about everything. And so what they experienced growing up was that usually it was like, one partner who was making all the decisions. And the reason that there wasn't conflict is because one partner had all the power in the relationship, or they switched power. But still, somehow, this couple, these parents, managed to just not have overt conflict. So what happens to someone who doesn't experience their own parents having rupture and repair, then now they think that these ruptures that are now happening in my relationship, there must be something wrong. They have very little skills to actually repair the situation. So we do want some adversity.
Stephanie Rigg [00:41:03]:
Yeah, I think that's a really important point. It's something I can relate to. In my family. There wasn't a lot of loud conflict fighting, but I was definitely acutely aware of when there was tension.
Julie Menanno [00:41:16]:
And that can be really hard.
Stephanie Rigg [00:41:18]:
Yeah. And I think that that then, for me, has I developed in that environment where I'm now very sensitive to energetic shifts in a dynamic and can experience those. And I've had to do a lot of work around it, like, experience those as really threatening and as some precursor to something very bad, something that's really going to rock the boat. And that feels quite threatening to my system. And so having to kind of disentangle all of that body memory that says, like, oh, this is bad. And you need to kind of get on the front foot and figure out what the problem is and stop it before it becomes something bigger. There's a lot of really, just as.
Julie Menanno [00:42:05]:
You talk, I'm just feeling that anxiety in my system when you're in those situations and, you know, there's this tension, but it's not being talked about. Sometimes that can feel worse than actually hearing people fight.
Stephanie Rigg [00:42:20]:
Absolutely. And I think it does create that hyper vigilance, too, the elephant in the room. And it's something that still now, really, I have such a strong reaction to is, like, there's a thing that's being avoided. There's a conversation that's being avoided or an issue that's being avoided. And I have such a visible reaction to that perception because it has all of the weight of that history behind it.
Julie Menanno [00:42:48]:
Well, what's coming to mind? It's interesting. I'm sure you're familiar with the strange situation. The original, I don't know if you remember this piece, but the children who were labelled as anxious attachment were crying and they were kind of inconsolable when they got triggered. And the mom was kind of anxiously trying to calm them down, but it took an extended period of time compared to the babies with secure attachment. The avoidant children, on the other hand, were just blank. They didn't show much emotion at all. They weren't showing any signs of distress, they just kept playing with the toys. But it was the avoidant children who were more physiologically aroused, even more so than the anxious children.
Julie Menanno [00:43:30]:
So there is something to be said for at least with anxious attachment, that energy is somewhat getting expelled. Not that it's all got its downsides in different ways, but I'm just thinking of you sitting there as a child and know you didn't grow up in this high conflict home, but yet you still have this sense of anxiety and it probably took you a while in your life, I'm guessing, to recognise, hey, that was painful, too.
Stephanie Rigg [00:43:58]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think having that, being able to really honestly look at the environments that we grew up in, not in a way that's trying to lay blame or create a trauma that wasn't there, but to go, oh, okay, yeah, that had an impact. That kind of makes sense that this grew from that and that I adapted in that way and that made a lot of sense in that environment. But maybe that's not serving me well in this new environment that I'm trying to create. I think finding that middle road is really valuable in doing this work and having more context for ourselves and the way that we show up in relationships.
Julie Menanno [00:44:41]:
So true. I love how you said you're not looking for problems, but you are looking at the problems that might still be alive today. And I say this in the book, too. It's like, look, I'm not trying to take away your happy childhood memories or your love for your parents at all. All of it can be true. You can look at your child and say, hey, I was basically a happy kid. I felt loved, I felt supported. And here are some things that maybe didn't go well that are still kind of getting.
Julie Menanno [00:45:14]:
That are getting in my way in this relationship. And some people have the other experience where they're like, no, it was absolutely awful. I felt horrible. All of it can be true. There's no one thing that we can say. You have to have this set of trauma in order to be suffering now.
Stephanie Rigg [00:45:35]:
Yeah, that provides a nice segue. I was going to finish by asking you a very self interested question, because I know that you have. Do you have five kids?
Julie Menanno [00:45:45]:
Six kids.
Stephanie Rigg [00:45:47]:
Six kids. I'm six months pregnant with my first. It is very exciting. I'm very curious to ask you, coming from all of this work, and obviously with having six kids, what would you say is kind of attachment? How has doing this work, I suppose influenced the way that you have approached being a parent?
Julie Menanno [00:46:12]:
Well, it dramatically influenced the way that I am a parent. I mean, just dramatically. I mean, I started off in a really bad foot. This information wasn't available to me. I was not in the field at the time. I did not grow up in a home with much positive modelling and lots of stuff there. So when I had my first son, I was just dead set on figuring it all out. But I was reading all these parenting books, which this was 2001, so they weren't as progressed as they are now. And a lot of them were just kind of giving different contradictory information. I felt like an absolute mess. I did not know what I was doing and I definitely did not get at all the emotional support piece. In my mind, it was like, you create a structured environment, you send them to the right school, you feed them a really healthy diet. I was a stay at home mom and you just kind of put all these things into the recipe and everything works out. But my kids were really lacking in emotional support until I went a little bit before going back to grad school. I started discovering work on self compassion and that was a real shift for me. And then from there, that got me into attachment theory.
Julie Menanno [00:47:34]:
And before that I started doing more of that attachment parenting style, which seemed to be very helpful for me as far as bonding. But my kids are all teenager. Well, they're twelve to 22, so teenage, young, preteen to young adolescent. And the relationship that I have with my children is profoundly healthy. It is probably the biggest achievement I think, of my life, is what I have been able to create with my kids. I have it down. I know how to be emotionally supportive, I know how to be validating. I know how to get them to understand themselves on a deeper level. And for anyone out there who has kids that you have had strained relationships with, or you feel guilty because you hear all this attachment information and we're always sort of blaming the parents, right? There is a way to turn it around. Just keep going with this information, keep going with learning. Truly, it all boils down to learning how to be emotionally supportive. And I hope I answered your question.
Stephanie Rigg [00:48:49]:
Yeah, no, absolutely. It's funny I wanted to ask you because people have been asking me, and while I have my ideas about how I plan to approach parenting, knowing what I know about this work, I'm also very ready to be humbled because I think that going into it, ideals are one thing, and I'm sure the reality of it will be challenging and beautiful and surprising in so many ways. Something that I keep coming back to for myself is like safety, factual safety versus the perception of safety. And I think for babies, infants, children, the perception of safety, and frankly, adults is so much more rich and important in having that really felt sense of security. And I think so much kind of more traditional parenting stuff is just about like, is the baby factually safe? Right? Do they have their physical needs met? Rather than all of that emotional nurturance and validation which is like, do you feel that? Do you perceive yourself to be safe? And really leading with what would a child be wanting from me in order to feel safe in this moment with whatever behaviour they're presenting, I think is a really helpful kind of North Star on a lot of decisions around that.
Julie Menanno [00:50:12]:
It's so true. We really do need to put emotions first. And I think in this culture we're putting achievements first, we're putting school first, we're putting sports first, and even maybe physical health sometimes first, which is, as we know, all those things are wonderful and important. But what needs to happen first is emotional safety. Truly, the parents that I've worked with throughout the years that have become parents as we're doing this work or after they've done all this work, just goes my blanket. I have seen them be very successful from day one, so there is hope, you know, so much. I just want to reassure you that what I see is that people who are going into parenting doing this work, that the experience is just so pleasurable for them because they get to feel so successful. And for me, when I had my first, I was learning, oh, you have to let them cry it out.
Julie Menanno [00:51:17]:
They've got to be on this sleep schedule. I mean, to this day I have PTSD symptoms around listening to my son cry, I just. Horrible memories. With my third, I learned this attachment parenting where I was carrying her in a sling and sleeping with her. And to me that was a beautiful experience. Not that everybody needs to take it that far, but for me that way of living was far less exhausting than the other way. I was getting sleep at night. I felt the felt sense of emotionals.
Julie Menanno [00:51:45]:
Everything just felt safe and right and then. Are you familiar with gober mate?
Stephanie Rigg [00:51:52]:
Yes.
Julie Menanno [00:51:53]:
Okay, so have you read his book on add scattered no, I haven't. Okay, well, there's a chapter in this book, kind of near the end about parenting, and it feels a little, I don't know if I want to say random, but it's a parenting style that he's bringing to life and describing that is exactly the way I've learned to parent. And whenever he's describing it in this book, in this add book, which it doesn't have to be about add at all, to me, that's the way to go, is that chapter of the graph latte book. And I have seen that way of being with children be so successful.
Stephanie Rigg [00:52:33]:
Yeah. A lot of his stuff around parenting really resonates. He has a section in his newest book, the myth of normal around parenting, and there's another one, hold on to your kids, which he co wrote with another guy, which is direct. Okay. Yeah, well, no, but he's so prolific that he really covers such a broad scope. But yeah, a lot of his stuff makes a lot of sense to me and everything.
Julie Menanno [00:53:00]:
You're going to be fine.
Stephanie Rigg [00:53:01]:
If you're already is hoping again, I'm very ready to be humbled, but I'm feeling better prepared than I certainly would have been without all of this work. It's an exciting time. Julie, where can people find you? I think I suspect a lot of people listening will already be familiar with you. But for those who aren't, what's the best way for them to engage more deeply with your work and stay connected with you?
Julie Menanno [00:53:30]:
Well, my home base, because this is where I kind of started putting this information out, is my Instagram account, which is at the secure relationship. I also have a website where you can go to just see my podcast that I've done, not mine, but guest appeared on. That is where you'll find links to the book. I do have a team of therapists working for me, coaches, actually, that work all over the globe. And then my book, secure love, which is now out, not as I speak. When this airs, you can find it anywhere. It's all over the world, lots of different places. But I always say we'll just go to Amazon and that seems like an easy one.
Julie Menanno [00:54:20]:
So, yeah, secure love by Julie Manano. I'm really proud. Really proud. I really think I've put something together that is going to really have a lot to give to the world, and that feels really good for me. But if you don't want to buy the book, definitely go to my Instagram account because all of the information is there. I mean, it's disjointed it's not as organised, but as you know, my posts are very lengthy, very much in depth. So Instagram account is an actual book, if you don't mind kicking around a lot and reading the same thing over and over.
Stephanie Rigg [00:54:54]:
Thanks, Julie. We'll link all of that in the show notes and absolutely, I think your Instagram is invaluable. But I also very much look forward to receiving a copy of the book. Julie, thank you so much for a beautiful conversation. It's been very insightful and I'm sure will be hugely valuable to everyone who is listening.
Julie Menanno [00:55:13]:
All right, well, great. Thanks for having me and congratulations and I'm so excited for you. Glowing. Now it makes.
Stephanie Rigg [00:55:21]:
Well, I think it's because it's the middle of summer here. People keep saying to me that I'm glowing and I think it's just like light sweat. But I'm happy to take the compliment on glowing, the word that is reserved for pregnant women.
Stephanie Rigg [00:55:35]:
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again sooner.
Keywords from Podcast Episode
communication in relationships, emotional regulation, personal growth, first order change, second order change, emotional safety, validating concerns, anxious partners, avoidant partners, empathetic conversations, behaviour change, secure attachment, self-regulation, self-improvement, navigating emotions, self-trust, managing negative emotions, relationship adversity, conflict resolution, relationship growth, low-conflict upbringing, childhood impact on relationships, attachment theory, self-compassion, Gabor Maté, parenting advice, couples therapy, attachment styles, negative communication cycles, practical relationship skills
#131 On Getting Back Together with an Ex
In today's episode, we're talking all about getting back together with an ex. Facing the prospect of rekindling after a relationship has ended can bring up so many conflicting feelings - longing, optimism and hope, together with fear, worry, self-doubt and anxiety.
In today's episode, we're talking all about getting back together with an ex. Facing the prospect of rekindling after a relationship has ended can bring up so many conflicting feelings - longing, optimism and hope, together with fear, worry, self-doubt and anxiety.
In helping you navigate the messiness of these situations, I'll be sharing some good reasons and some not-so-good reasons why you might consider getting back together with an ex, and how you can best approach that decision to support yourself and your relationship going forward.
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Navigating the Decision to Get Back Together with an Ex
If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that relationships can be a rollercoaster of emotions. From the intense highs of love and connection to the gut-wrenching lows of heartbreak and uncertainty, it's no wonder that the decision to get back together with an ex can leave us feeling conflicted and confused. In this article, we'll delve into the complexities of rekindling with an ex, exploring both the potential pitfalls and the signs that it might be worth considering.
Navigating the Emotional Rollercoaster
Breaking up with someone can stir up a wide range of feelings - grief, relief, loneliness, uncertainty, and self-doubt, to name a few. It's essential to recognise that these emotions are entirely normal, even if the relationship may not have been healthy. The aftermath of a breakup is often marked by a selective memory of the good times, leaving us longing for what once was, rather than acknowledging the hardships that led to the breakup.
For those with anxious attachment patterns, the post-breakup period can be particularly challenging. The focus on salvaging the relationship and the feelings of failure can exacerbate the emotional turmoil. It’s vital to acknowledge that even if a relationship was dysfunctional, the attachment to that person takes time to unravel. It’s not always rational - it's emotional and deeply biological.
Evaluating the Reasons to Rekindle
Amidst the overwhelming emotions of a breakup, it's essential to consider the motives for seeking to reunite with an ex. Missing your ex, fear of being alone, or simply feeling disheartened by the dating landscape are some common reasons. However, these reasons may not always provide a sturdy foundation for rekindling a relationship.
It’s important to be cautious of reuniting with an ex simply because you miss them. Grief and longing are typical after a breakup, but they alone may not warrant getting back together. Similarly, a fear of loneliness or a reluctance to re-enter the dating scene can inadvertently drive us back into a relationship that may not address our needs and desires.
Healthy Reflection and Communication
When considering the possibility of reuniting with an ex, honest and open communication is key. It's crucial to have clear conversations about the reasons for the breakup, how each party contributed to the issues in the relationship, and the unmet needs. Addressing these aspects could provide valuable insights into the patterns that were not working, and ways to nurture a healthier relationship.
Reflection on why things might be different this time is equally important. Simply being aware of the issues may not be sufficient - a proactive plan to nurture the relationship and prevent the re-emergence of past challenges is vital. Without a structured approach to address the root causes of the breakup, there's a risk of falling back into the same detrimental patterns.
The Role of Time and Growth
One potential indicator of a successful reunion with an ex is the presence of substantial time and personal growth since the breakup. A significant period apart can offer clarity and a fresh perspective. It provides an opportunity for both individuals to grow individually, learn from past mistakes, and evaluate what they truly seek in a relationship.
If time apart has allowed for personal growth and life circumstances have evolved positively, reuniting with an ex may present a more promising prospect. This new beginning offers the chance to build a relationship free from the baggage of the past, bringing a renewed sense of understanding and open communication.
In Conclusion
The decision to get back together with an ex is a significant one, fraught with emotional weight and potential challenges. It's essential to approach this decision with self-responsibility, honesty, and a compassionate understanding of our own needs.
Rekindling with an ex requires a thoughtful and reflective approach, focusing on clear communication, recognition of growth, insight into past issues, and a proactive plan for the future. While navigating this decision may be complex, assessing the reasons for considering a reunion will guide us towards making a choice that aligns with our well-being and personal growth.
If you're currently contemplating the possibility of reuniting with an ex, remember that it's okay to seek support and guidance through this process. The road to revitalising a past relationship can be uncertain, but with introspection and clear communication, it's possible to approach this decision with a sense of understanding and confidence.
Questions for Discussion & Reflection
1. How have you experienced the emotions of grief, loss, and relief after a breakup in your own life? How do these emotions influence your decision-making about getting back together with an ex?
2. Have you ever found yourself longing for the past good memories in a relationship after it has ended, leading to a selective memory of the day-to-day challenges? How did this impact your perspective on the relationship and the possibility of getting back together?
3. Have you ever felt the fear of being alone or settling for a familiar but dissatisfying relationship? How does this fear influence your decisions about reconnecting with an ex or starting anew in the dating pool?
4. In thinking about the reasons for getting back together with an ex, have you had clear conversations about how both partners contributed to the breakdown of the relationship, unmet needs, and the patterns that were harmful?
5. How do you approach the idea of growth and change, both in yourself and in a potential partner, when considering getting back together with an ex? What role does personal growth play in rebuilding a relationship?
6. Reflect on a time when you or someone you know had to navigate an anxious-avoidant dynamic in a relationship. How did this impact the decision to rekindle the relationship, and what factors should be considered in this context?
7. Have you ever faced the challenge of maintaining a balanced power dynamic in a relationship after reuniting with an ex? What are some warning signs and red flags to be aware of in this situation?
8. If you have taken a substantial amount of time apart from an ex and reconnected, how did this distance impact the potential for a renewed relationship? What changes or new circumstances made a difference in your decision?
9. Discuss the role of self-responsibility and self-care when making the decision to get back together with an ex. How can one balance their own needs with the desire to rekindle a relationship?
10. How important is it to have a plan for change and growth when considering getting back together with an ex? What are the key elements of a plan for rebuilding a relationship?
FURTHER LINKS & RESOURCES:
Check out my couples course, Secure Together (& save $200 with the code SECURE)
Save $150 on my Higher Love break-up course with the code PHOENIX
Follow me on Instagram: @stephanie__rigg & @onattachment
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Episode Transcript
[00:00:25]:
Welcome back to another episode of on Attachment. In today's episode, we are talking all about getting back together with an ex. When you might consider doing that, what might be a good reason or some good reasons for thinking about that course of action, and what might be some not so good reasons that you might be considering getting back with an ex. Now, this is one of those ones that I get a lot of questions about. I have done an episode ages ago on the show around questions to ask when you're considering getting back with an ex, but it's been a while since I've addressed this topic directly, so I wanted to talk about it here to give you a bit of a sense and a bit of a roadmap in guiding that decision if that's a situation that you find yourself in where you're considering rekindling with someone that you've ended a relationship with, because I think there can be a lot of really powerful and confusing emotions at play and it can be hard to trust our own judgement. And fair enough, because, as I said, it is really confusing and emotionally dense. So I think having some guiding questions and some things to think about sometimes, to cut through the emotional noise of it all, can be really supportive when you're in that position.
[00:01:50]:
So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Before we dive into that, I just wanted to share that I am running a sale for Valentine's Day starting today, so I'm going to be offering 50% off my higher love course and my secure together course. So these are two of my best selling programmes. Higher love is a breakup course. It's a beautiful resource if you have recently been through a relationship ending and you're really struggling to process that. It's very much a comprehensive resource and toolkit to walk you through that process, not only processing the end of the relationship and finding closure around it, but then looking forward to the next chapter and gaining real clarity and confidence around what that looks like and what you are wanting going forward in relationships so that you can avoid maybe recreating a similar pattern or dynamic in your next relationship. Secure together is a course for couples primarily, or it's a relationship focused course. So that would be a great one for you if you're in a relationship secure together, is the course that I recorded with Joel, my partner.
[00:03:00]:
So it's very much focused on anxious avoidant dynamics and navigating those dynamics in a non blaming, non shaming way that will allow you to connect and understand each other more deeply. And it's a very, very comprehensive resource in that respect, covering a whole range of topics. So either of those courses can be accessed for 50% off for the next week with the code big love, all one word. So if you're interested in that, whether you've been through a breakup or you're in a relationship, hopefully there's something for everyone there as a little Valentine's Day special. Okay, so let's talk about getting back together with an ex. So, as I said in the introduction, I want to give you some good reasons and some, I don't want to say bad reasons, but kind of bad reasons, not so good reasons that you might be thinking about getting back together with an ex. Before I kind of get into the nitty gritty of those, I just want to set the scene a little and normalise and validate that. Of course, when a relationship ends, you're going to have so many mixed feelings.
[00:04:04]:
You might feel immense, overwhelming grief. You might feel really lost and disoriented, you might feel relieved, you might feel lonely, you might feel scared, you might feel a lot of uncertainty about the future. You might be feeling rejected, you might be feeling unworthy, really doubting of your lovability or your value. There's a lot in that. And I think that we maybe downplay just how emotionally overwhelming a breakup can be, given all of the things that it will often stir up within us. So if you've been through a breakup recently, and recently is relative, for some people, that might be a couple of days, others it might be months or even longer. I don't know that there's some sort of ideal timeline for processing that grief, because grief is really personal. And I just want to really normalise and validate any and all of those things that you might be feeling.
[00:05:06]:
And maybe there are lots of other things that are in there too, because it is a bit of an emotional roller coaster. And particularly if, as I know, a lot of my listeners are, if you are someone with more anxious attachment patterns. I've spoken many times before on the show about how breakups can be particularly challenging for folks with anxious attachment patterns, because so much of your sense of self and purpose and so much of your energy on a day to day basis tends to be orbiting around the relationship, pouring into the other person. And particularly when a relationship is feeling really strained or challenging, and that will often be the case. Towards the end of a relationship, the amount of energy that you were putting into it was probably heightened, right? That only tends to increase as things get harder. So for you to be completely consumed with trying to salvage something, only for it to ultimately end, that's going to be very, very challenging for you. And you probably feel, in addition to all of the other things that I just shared, you might feel a real sense of failure because you might have been carrying the self imposed pressure of needing to make it work, or if only you'd done something differently, then maybe things would have been different. I think another really common scenario after a breakup is that we can have a very selective memory around what the reality of the relationship was like.
[00:06:42]:
So all of a sudden, the day to day challenges and hardships in the relationship, which were very real and very overwhelming when we were in it, those tend to be alleviated, right? Because we're not in proximity to our ex, we're not having those same fights, we're not in the pressure cooker of the relationship anymore. And so all of that tension and pressure can fall away and we're just left longing for the good stuff. And we can really have rose coloured glasses in hindsight, when we're thinking about all of the things that we miss and all of the things that we will miss going forward, I think grieving the future that we're not going to have with them can be as devastating, if not more so, than grieving the past that we shared together. So I think in the days and weeks after a breakup, we have all of these realisations of, oh, I'm not going to get to go and do that thing anymore with my partner, or that show that we watched together, who am I going to talk to about that now or that restaurant that we loved? All of the little things that can sort of get lost in the bigger picture of a relationship that's not working can all of a sudden trigger this immense grief and this real sadness and longing and sorrow. So I think that our focus tends to go to all of that stuff that we're missing, rather than all of the things that we're relieved to no longer be having to deal with, because we sort of lose sight of how hard those things really were when we're no longer being exposed to it and we're just feeling the lack of the good things. So all of that to say that if you're experiencing those things, if you've been through those waves, that's really normal and understandable and very human. And it's unfortunately just a part of the process of a breakup, because a breakup really is an unravelling of all of that, of our attachment to someone. And even if it doesn't really make sense, I often get people saying, why am I so upset about a relationship ending that was clearly dysfunctional and I was sad and stressed all the time in the relationship.
[00:08:58]:
So why do I feel even worse now that it's ended? And it's so important to understand that this stuff isn't really rational. It's emotional, it's biological, it's our attachment system. And so even if a relationship was unhealthy, you had an attachment to that person. And with that person and untangling, that takes some time and will feel really uncomfortable. So I just wanted to start by recognising the realness of all of that, rather than just going straight into nice and easy questions and tips and pitfalls that maybe recognise or honour the emotional mess of a breakup. Because I think we've probably all been there and we know that it's way easier said than done, that it's simple but not easy, and that what might be obvious from the outside is really, really hard when you're on the inside. So with all of that being said, if you are in this situation of you've been through a breakup and you're contemplating getting back with your ex, whether that's because they've reached out or you want to reach out or you've been having discussions and it's on the cards that you might get back together and try again. Obviously, be discerning, apply this to your situation to the extent that it applies to your situation.
[00:10:17]:
But I want to start with some reasons why you might not want to make that decision. What we might call bad reasons to consider getting back with an ex. And I think that the first one is just that you miss them absent anything else. Right. If it is just an emotional pull and a yearning and a longing and a sadness, missing them, feeling really deep in the grief of the breakup, I do not think that that alone is enough or is a good justification for getting back together. Because, as I've just spent some time explaining, all of that's completely normal and will typically be present, even if the relationship was really unhealthy and probably needed to end. But I think that so many people fall into this trap of thinking, like, if this was the right thing, I wouldn't feel so bad. I wouldn't miss them so much.
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I wouldn't be feeling the absolute heavy weight of grief about this ending. And I'm so uncomfortable with that grief, I don't really know what to do with it. So how do I just backpedal and reverse this and go back to the comfort zone of the relationship, the familiarity of that, even if it's a better the devil you know kind of situation. A lot of people do that. They just can't cope with the feeling of disorientation and loss that comes with a breakup, and so they scramble back. And the reason why that's a bad reason to get back together, apart from the fact that you will always feel that after a breakup, is that none of the issues that led to the relationship breaking down are going to have been resolved in that scenario. And it's typically based on misguided optimism in this sense of, oh, but we love each other so much, and now we are able to see clearly how much we love and miss each other, so let's just try again. And while love and a realisation of how much you value each other is necessary, I don't think it's sufficient.
[00:12:28]:
And so just missing each other without more is not a good reason to think about getting back together. Okay. Another not so great reason for wanting to get back with your ex is a fear of being alone or ending up alone. Or maybe you've been broken up for a few months and you've started dating again and you find yourself a little disheartened by the reality of the dating pool and the whole dating experience. So I think, again, this happens a lot. I hear from people a lot in this situation of once they put themselves back out there, or maybe they're just grappling with the reality of starting from scratch and being single all of a sudden. The things that felt really hard and challenging and dissatisfying about their relationship pale by comparison when thinking about having to reenter single life, which for some people, reentering single life is a really exciting prospect for a lot of people. I know that it isn't, particularly with the realities of online dating and how exasperating and demoralising even that process can be.
[00:13:32]:
So I think that often there can be this sense of the dread of approaching dating, or maybe you've been on dates, as I said, and it's been a little lacklustre, and then you start to go, oh, maybe my ex wasn't so bad, or maybe my previous relationship wasn't so bad. Maybe I can kind of slink back there with my tail between my legs and maybe all of my unmet needs or all of the things that bothered me there, I can just kind of suck it up and get over it, because at least it was comfortable and at least we loved each other. And that feels a lot better than the void that I'm swirling around in at the moment. Now, again, very human, very understandable, very natural. You're not pathetic or crazy or desperate to be contemplating getting back together on that basis. And I think we can also recognise that a sense of scarcity and loneliness is probably not the ideal foundation for thinking about rekindling and rebuilding a relationship that ended because it wasn't working. So I think that if that's the main driver for you, that sense of fear and loneliness and worry, that there's not something better out there. So I should just settle for a relationship that I wasn't happy in because I'm worried that that's the best I'm ever going to get.
[00:14:49]:
I don't think that that's fair to you or fair to your ex, frankly, because it's not really what you want. It's just maybe what you think is possible for you because you're feeling a little wobly in your confidence as you re approach dating. Okay, the next not so great reason to get back together with someone. And this is kind of specific to a certain dynamic and scenario that I get a lot of questions about. Again, if you were in a classic anxious avoidant kind of dynamic, and your partner kind of freaked out, had some fear come up and pulled away and withdrew and maybe said, I'm not ready for a relationship, or I don't think this is working, or maybe this isn't the right fit, they had some of those reservations come up and they ended the relationship on that basis and you were really devastated by that because that's not what you wanted, and then some weeks or months later, they pop their head up again and kind of act like nothing happened and try and reopen the connection without any recognition of what went on or why or what's going to be different this time, how they've processed whatever fears or resistance drove them to that behaviour in the first place. If it's a kind of, can we just sweep it under the rug and start again? Because I miss you, or anything in that vein, I would really, really counsel you against it because as we'll come to in a moment when we start talking about some good reasons to get back together, having real clarity around what went wrong and why and why it's not going to happen again is absolutely essential. And in the absence of that, if someone's not really taking ownership of what happened, and again, it's not about fault or blame, it's not saying like, you did this, so you have to make it right in a finger pointing kind of way. But it is just recognising that something happened there and that was really painful for you.
[00:16:45]:
I know that for people who are in that situation where someone is having second thoughts and kind of has 1ft out the door and maybe you've broken up several times and then gotten back together, then broken up, then gotten back together. Continuing to play out that pattern establishes such an imbalanced power dynamic in the relationship whereby the person who didn't want the relationship to end and who wants to believe that it's going to be different this time, they tend to get smaller and smaller and smaller every time you come back together. Right? So if you're in that situation and your partner is coming back and wanting to try things again, but you're not really convinced that there is that self awareness and self responsibility around what was going on and how they plan to address that within themselves and relationally, then I think that it's, again, kind of misguided optimism that's coming from a place of hopefulness and yearning, but maybe is not really being kind to ourselves and being honest with ourselves about whether things are likely to really be what we need them to be in order for the relationship to work. And I think that when you've been in a dynamic where someone keeps pulling away and keeps getting scared and keeps running, then you become so hyper aware of that possibility that you become very small and you become very inclined to tiptoe around everything and walk on eggshells and not want to do anything that might tip them over the edge, that might scare them away, that might push them to the brink. And so you stop voicing needs and you try and be low maintenance. And as I said, it establishes a pretty imbalanced power dynamic in a lot of cases. So be really mindful of that as a possibility if that's a scenario that you're confronting. And as I said, I know that's a little bit more specific, but it's common enough that I get questions about it all the time.
[00:18:46]:
Okay, so let's pivot now to a couple of better reasons that you might want to think about getting back with an ex. Or maybe you relate to some of the reasons that I've shared that are not so great reasons and you want to put yourself in a better position to try rekindling. And these that I'm about to share will hopefully at least give you some guidance on what to aim for as part of that process, rather than just going in blind with hope and optimism but lacking a plan. So I think it is always a really good idea when you're thinking about getting back together with an ex that you have had very clear conversations around how each of you contributed to the patterns that existed in the relationship generally that weren't working, why the relationship ended, what caused the relationship to break down again with real clarity around how you each contributed to that and how it affected the other. What unmet needs were there in the relationship? Because in most cases there is some sense of we're not feeling satisfied here. And so many of the negative cycles that exist in relationships arise from unmet needs and conditions of not feeling valued, seen, understood. And so being able to talk about all of this stuff is absolutely essential if you're having conversations around getting back together and even trying to broach these topics is leading you into spiralling arguments. That's a bit of a red flag to suggest that maybe we are still lacking in the tools, the emotional safety, the awareness to be able to do the work that it would require for us to get back together in a way that's likely to be effective.
[00:20:26]:
So getting really honest with yourself around, like, okay, have we kind of done the work here? Do we know what led us to where we are? And an important additional step? Because I think a lot of people can fall into this trap of just having conversations that go round and round and round and we talk about it to death, and then we sort of burn out, fizzle out before we actually come up with a plan. So we don't walk away from the conversation with like, okay, so what's the action that comes from all of this talking that we've done? So being able to figure out, like, okay, why are things going to be different? Not just because we have awareness now that we didn't have awareness of before, because awareness is great and it's necessary, but again, it's probably not sufficient. You do need to go, okay, what are our commitments to each other? How are we going to make sure that this doesn't happen again? How are we going to proactively nurture our relationship so that we can address these things as and when they arise or even prevent them from arising, rather than letting stress get the better of us, letting ourselves fall back into old patterns. Because again, you can rest assured that if you're going in blind without a plan, you'll have the euphoria of being back together and it'll feel great for a bit, and then you'll just slip right back into where you were. And maybe with the added stress and hurt of feeling overwhelmed that you've landed back there when that wasn't what you wanted. So recognise that these patterns are really powerful and you're going to need to come up with a plan that you're both really on the same page around and you're feeling really collaborative and like minded in the way that you're wanting to approach it. That's going to really stand you in good stead to make sure that the relationship is different, because it is going to need to be different, otherwise it's going to end the same way. Okay?
[00:22:16]:
And as a last but related point, I think if you've taken a good amount of time apart, so maybe you've been broken up for six months, a year or longer, and you've lived a bit of life in between, and you've come back into contact somehow and you've reconnected and it feels good and you both have done a lot of growing in that time. You've sorted your shit out, to put it fontly, or at least you've done a lot of work in the direction of growing and getting to know yourself, and you're both open to trying something. And again, having, as I just talked about, a level of clarity around what you're both looking for, your values, your readiness for commitment, all of those things, and it does feel really aligned, then. That might be a scenario where it's.
[00:23:08]:
Like, okay, let's give it a crack. And maybe, as I said, with the benefit of time and space apart, a good amount of time and space apart, you might not have the emotional charge that comes with trying to get back together soon after breaking up. You might have a bit more distance from those patterns that could have existed in a previous iteration of your relationship. So it almost feels like in that scenario, you're starting from scratch with a new person, or at least with some sort of blank slate that allows you to come to it with really fresh eyes and not carrying all of the legacy baggage and wounding of a recent dysfunctional version of the relationship, because that's going to be very powerful in shaping the way that you relate to each other. So if you have had a bit more time and space apart and circumstances have changed, or maybe you broke up because you were long distance and now you're living in the same place or things like that, that kind of change the parameters, and it now feels aligned in a way that it didn't previously, then that might be a reason that you would explore rekindling or having another go. Okay, so I hope that that's been helpful for you. If you are someone who's been through a breakup recently and you've been toying with the idea of giving it another go or some other version of that scenario where it's on the cards that you could be rekindling with an ex, maybe they've popped their head up and you're wondering what you should do next. I hope that this has given you a lot of validation for how hard that is and a bit of a steer on some questions that you can ask yourself in reflecting and making that decision, because it is a big decision and it's one where we really want to be self responsible and honest and taking good care of ourselves while also obviously doing whatever we need to do and whatever we feel called to do in the relational field.
[00:25:01]:
So, as I said, I really hope that it's been supportive for you and a reminder that you can save 50% off my higher love breakup course or my secure together relationship course, anxious, avoidant couples course with the code big love, all one word. So thank you so much for joining me and I look forward to seeing you again next time. Thanks, guys.
[00:25:27]:
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon. Close.
Keywords from Podcast Episode
attachment, relationships, guidance, insecurity, breakup, rekindling, emotional, grief, closure, anxious, avoidant, dynamics, self-imposed pressure, selective memory, unmet needs, emotional roller coaster, dating, commitment, values, clarity, personal growth, validation, resilience, decision-making, self-awareness, emotional safety, power dynamic, wounding, long-distance, reflection, support