#207: Why You Feel Secure When You’re Single (But Anxious When You Start Dating)
If you’ve ever thought to yourself, “I feel amazing when I’m single—confident, grounded, totally in control. But the moment I start dating someone I actually like, I spiral into a ball of anxiety”… you’re not alone. This is one of the most common questions I hear: why do we feel secure when we’re single, but suddenly anxious when we enter the dating arena? The short answer? It makes perfect sense. And once you understand why this happens, you can begin to soften the self-judgment and support yourself through it.
If you’ve ever thought to yourself, “I feel amazing when I’m single—confident, grounded, totally in control. But the moment I start dating someone I actually like, I spiral into a ball of anxiety”… you’re not alone.
This is one of the most common questions I hear: why do we feel secure when we’re single, but suddenly anxious when we enter the dating arena?
The short answer? It makes perfect sense. And once you understand why this happens, you can begin to soften the self-judgment and support yourself through it.
The Calm of Singleness
When you’re single, your attachment system is relatively quiet. There are no relational stressors—no one pulling away, not texting back quickly enough, or stirring up fears of rejection. You’re not “in the arena,” so to speak.
You may be thriving in other areas—work, friendships, personal growth—and that can feel like security. But in reality, your attachment wounds aren’t being activated. They’re simply dormant.
The Trigger of New Connection
Attachment styles are essentially patterned responses to relational stress. For someone with anxious attachment, those fears center around abandonment, rejection, or disconnection. For someone more avoidant, the fears are often about being smothered, controlled, or losing autonomy.
When you start dating—when there’s something (or someone) you could lose—those old fears get activated. Suddenly, your nervous system goes into high alert: “This is important. This feels vulnerable. What if I get hurt?”
That’s why you can feel secure while single but fall back into anxious spirals as soon as there’s emotional investment.
Does This Mean You Can Only Heal in Relationship?
Not at all. You can do a tremendous amount of healing when you’re single—building self-worth, creating a full and meaningful life outside of partnership, and learning to soothe your nervous system.
But some fears can only be activated in relationship. For example:
An avoidant person can’t fully work through intimacy fears if they’re never in situations that require real vulnerability.
An anxious person won’t come face-to-face with their deepest abandonment fears unless they’re attached and emotionally invested.
Relationships, by design, bring our stuff to the surface. That’s not failure—it’s the work.
A Reality Check on “Doing the Work”
Even if you’ve done lots of inner work while single, it’s normal for your stuff to resurface once you start dating again. That doesn’t mean you’ve failed or regressed.
Think of it as being invited to practice in real time. Your growth isn’t about never being triggered—it’s about learning how to meet those triggers differently.
Instead of defaulting to old strategies (like clinging, over-texting, or obsessively seeking reassurance), you can notice your anxiety and ask:
“What do I need right now to feel more grounded? How can I support myself without abandoning myself or overwhelming the other person?”
That’s where healing really happens.
The Growth Edge
Dating with an anxious attachment style is inherently vulnerable. You’re excited about someone, which means there’s something to lose. That vulnerability is what kicks up your anxiety.
But vulnerability is also the entry point to deeper connection. The key is learning how to hold yourself with compassion in those moments—so you don’t spiral into self-blame or panic, but instead practice new ways of relating to yourself and others.
Final Thoughts
If you feel secure when single but anxious when dating, you’re not broken—and you’re certainly not alone. It’s not a sign that all your progress has gone out the window. It’s simply your nervous system doing its job, alerting you to perceived risks in connection.
The invitation is to meet those moments with curiosity rather than judgment. To remind yourself: “This makes sense. I can support myself through this. I don’t need to make the anxiety mean something bad.”
Because that’s where your growth edge lies—not in avoiding relationships altogether, but in showing up differently when your fears are activated.
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Episode Transcript
Stephanie Rigg [00:00:00]:
Hey, guys, Steph here. Before today's episode begins, I just wanted to pop in with a quick and time sensitive announcement. For 72 hours only, I am running a flash sale where you can save 40% of my signature course, Healing Anxious Attachment.
Stephanie Rigg [00:00:14]:
If you're hearing this, it means that. The sale is still live, but only. For a very limited time. I hardly ever run public flash sales. Like this, so if you've been thinking about joining, now is the time.
Stephanie Rigg [00:00:24]:
Head to the link in the show notes or go directly to my website to grab your spot before the sale ends. Alright, let's get into the episode. You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach, Stephanie Rigg. And I'm really glad you're here.
Stephanie Rigg [00:00:55]:
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. In today's episode, I am answering the question of why you feel secure when you're single but anxious when you start dating. So this is one that I get a lot. People will reach out to me, whether students in my programmes or people on Instagram or elsewhere with this experience of like, I feel great when I'm single. I feel like I'm totally in control and I've got my shit together and I'm good at my job and it feels like life, life is kind of going well, everything is smooth sailing. And then as soon as I start seeing someone, start talking to someone on an app that I'm interested in, maybe I go on a couple of dates and I lose the plot.
Stephanie Rigg [00:01:41]:
I am totally beside myself with anxiety. I spiral into this anxious mess and I hardly recognise myself. What is going on? I thought that I was making strides and I was suddenly secure and then actually I feel really disheartened because it turns out all of my anxious patterns were just lying dormant beneath the surface, waiting to be activ activated by some new connection. So what? What gives? What's going on? Why is that happening? So maybe that's something that you relate to. I know that it is really common and I'm going to be sharing some thoughts today on why that actually makes perfect sense. That is not at all confusing or perplexing to me. That is exactly what I would expect to happen. So I'm going to be talking about why that makes so much sense and perhaps more importantly, how you might relate to that experience and what you can do to try and feel a little bit more ground rather than making that experience a problem and kind of panicking and going, this is bad.
Stephanie Rigg [00:02:38]:
I shouldn't be feeling anxious. I was feeling fine before. What does it mean that I'm not feeling fine now? Because obviously all of that meaning making on top of the anxiety that you might be experiencing can take it from bad to worse and can leave you feeling not only insecure and full of doubt, but then like, spiralling about the spiralling. So that's what we're going to be talking about in today's episode. Before we get into that, just a reminder. If you are someone who struggles with anxious attachment, as I know most of my listeners are, and you haven't yet checked out my free training on how to heal Anxious Attachment and finally feel Secure in Life and Love, or my Anxious Attachment starter kit, both of those are really wonderful free resources that you can find in the show notes and on my website. I really, really encourage you to check those out as a starting point, and particularly if you're someone who has this tendency to judge your anxiety as being wrong or bad and the instinct to just try and get rid of it to make your anxiety stop or go away. Those free resources that I've mentioned will be really helpful in explaining to you why that might actually be keeping you stuck, that mindset, and what you can do instead to meaningfully shift the relationship you have with your anxiety, which in turn tends to actually soften some of the anxiety.
Stephanie Rigg [00:03:50]:
Ironically, the more we try and control it and make it go away, the louder it gets much of the time. Okay, so let's talk about this. Why would you feel totally secure while single, but suddenly an anxious mess when you start dating someone? So if we take a step back and look at what attachment theory and attachment styles is des, and you might have heard me say before that my preferred way of distilling down the crux of attachment styles is what have we learned to fear in relationships and how have we learned to respond to the fear? Or what are the things that we experience as stressful when it comes to a relationship, and how have we learned to manage the stress? And those habituated patterns of stress and fear and protective strategies are essentially attachment styles, right? So someone with more anxious attachment patterns has learned to fear disconnection, abandonment, rejection, rupture, and the ways that they've learned to manage that are by clinging, gripping, controlling, information gathering, people pleasing, fawning, all of those protective strategies, whereas someone who's more avoidant has learned to fear being smothered, being criticised, being a Failure and being overly depended on in a way that feels like it's out of their depths, being trapped, having their autonomy infringed upon, and the ways that they've learned to protect against that are shying away from emotional depth or intimacy, trying to keep things more casual by resisting commitment. All of those things can be part of the protective strategy of someone with more avoidant patterns. So why is it that you'd feel secure when you're single, but suddenly be propelled into all of your protective strategies in whatever direction? And I should have said at the outset the question was about anxious attachment, but the same will be true for people with other insecure patterns. Right? You might feel really secure when you're single and suddenly very not secure when you start D and the very simple answer is that when you are single, you are not being brought into contact with relational stresses. Right? And if we think of attachment styles and your anxious attachment patterns or your avoidant attachment patterns or fearful avoidant attachment patterns for that matter, as being the things that you do in response to relational stress, there's just no trigger when you're single. So there's nothing for those patterns to be responding to.
Stephanie Rigg [00:06:09]:
So you might be feeling totally in control when you're single, but you're not in the arena when you're single. Right. It's only when you develop an attachment to someone that all of those patterns and all of those fears start to register as being relevant to the situation. They get brought to the surface because that's what they're in response to. They're in response to relationships. That's where they were formed. That's where they play out. Now, you might be wondering and listening to that.
Stephanie Rigg [00:06:37]:
Does that mean that I can only heal when I'm in a relationship? If all of these patterns are just going to lie dormant until I get into a relationship? No. No matter what I'm feeling when I'm single, does that mean that certain things can only be healed there? And I've done a whole episode on this. Is it better to heal while single or in a relationship directly addressing that question? So you can go and listen to that if you want to go deeper. But the short answer is I think there are certainly things that will only come up in relationship and so can only be healed in relationship. So certain fears around intimacy. Right. If you're someone with more avoidant patterns, you're not going to heal your intimacy fears by being single because you're just not being brought into contact with those intimacy fears. If you're maybe having Casual sex with people, or you've got kind of surface level friendships or whatever.
Stephanie Rigg [00:07:26]:
You go to work, you catch up with someone for a drink. None of that is bringing you face to face with your deepest fears about intimacy and vulnerability. So you're able to keep that locked away. And for as long as that's locked away, it's still there. It's only when we turn towards those parts of ourselves that we have maybe locked away in the basement that we can develop a new relationship with them and ultimately free them from the burdens that they might have been carrying for a really long time. The same is true for someone with more anxious attachment patterns. You're not going to be face to face with your abandonment fears if you're not in a relationship. You might be feeling insecure about not being in a relationship, but it's not going to be to the same degree as when you're really invested and the stakes feel so high because suddenly there's someone that you're very attached to and you're scared of losing them.
Stephanie Rigg [00:08:15]:
That's a completely different set of circumstances to being single and wanting a relationship. So there are certain things that we'll only really be brought into contact with when we're in a relationship and when we are invested and when the stakes do feel high and when we do feel like we've got a lot to lose because that's where we're risking so much and so much is on the line. So naturally our fears and our protective parts are going to be on high alert in those circumstances. With that being said, I still think that there's a lot of work that you can do when you're single or between relationships in order to better prepare yourself to do that work once you get into a relationship at whatever future point. So it's not to say that time spent between relationships is wasted and you can't be doing any meaningful work on yourself. I think the opposite is true, particularly if you're someone with more anxious patterns. There's huge value in learning to build a beautiful, fulfilling, rich life between relationships, because your starting point might be always needing a relationship in order to feel like you're enough or like your life has value. Always orienting your identity around being someone's partner.
Stephanie Rigg [00:09:28]:
So learning to stand on your own two feet and learning to feel really good about yourself I think is absolutely valuable and worthwhile work to do when you're single. But that's not to say that you're going to have a really smooth transition back into relationships. And I think that's an important kind of reality check and expectation realignment that a lot of people need. That even if you've done a lot of work, when you get into a relationship, your stuff is going to come up. And that's probably true even for secure people. Right. That relationships are uniquely triggering and they're kind of designed to show us all of our stuff and designed to push us to our edges and show us where our work is. And obviously there are healthier and less healthy containers for doing that work.
Stephanie Rigg [00:10:15]:
It's not to say that it's a great idea to get into a super triggering relationship just so that you're in the arena and you have the opportunity to be confronted with your triggers. But expecting to never be triggered in a relationship just because you've been doing the work while single is not realistic either. So all of that to say don't panic. If you start dating someone and suddenly you're feeling really anxious, that makes perfect sense. Because that is just your nervous system doing its job, doing exactly what it was designed to do, which is to say, hey, this thing reminds me of that other thing. And that other thing was painful or scary or we got hurt. Then are you sure we shouldn't try and do all of the things to prot ourselves that we did before? And that's just the programme that it's going to run. And you don't have to make meaning out of that.
Stephanie Rigg [00:11:00]:
You just have to notice it and turn towards yourself and go, okay, what do I need? I'm noticing that I'm feeling anxious about this person that I've connected with. That makes sense. I'm excited about them. And being excited about them means it's vulnerable, means I've got something to lose, I've got some skin in the game. So naturally my fears around that are going to be brought to the surface. How can I best support myself to move through this period that feels a little edgy, that feels a little vulnerable in a more grounded way? And that is how we actually shift our patterns is by showing up to triggering or challenging experiences in a different way to what we might have in the past. That is really where our growth lies. And that's what shows our system.
Stephanie Rigg [00:11:43]:
There's another way. We don't have to default to those old habituated patterns of self protection which might be tech someone incessantly or stalking them or doing all of the things to try and create reassurance for ourselves at a time when we're feeling unsure. So that's really the growth edge here. That's the opportunity is to not make ourselves wrong for feeling anxiety, but get curious about it and get curious about what we might need in order to stay somewhat grounded through that experience and really support ourselves to show up as the person that we want to be. And I should say I do have other episodes on anxiety in early dating and how you can manage that things to do and not do to support yourself through that experience. Okay, I really hope that that's been helpful in answering this question and demystifying it a bit because as I said, it's actually not a mystery at all. It makes perfect sense if that's your experience. If anything, I'd be more surprised if you weren't experiencing anxiety in early dating because it's an anxiety inducing experience for people with anxious attachment patterns that is absolutely par for the course.
Stephanie Rigg [00:12:47]:
So rather than making that a problem, we just want to manage it as best we can and learn better ways to support through that experience. Okay guys, thank you so much for joining me. I really hope this has been helpful and I look forward to seeing you again next time.
Stephanie Rigg [00:13:03]:
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things things, attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
Keywords from Podcast Episode
attachment, emotional intelligence, nervous system, parenting, relationships, child development, self-awareness, self-regulation, mental load, self-care, family dynamics, conflict resolution, marriage, somatic therapy, emotional literacy, behavioural choices, co-regulation, repair in relationships, individual differences, sensory processing, resilience, burnout, childhood emotional needs, adult relationships, neuroception, compassion, guilt in parenting, shame, family communication, children's emotional safety
#206: How Understanding Your Nervous System Can Make You A Better Partner & Parent with Alyssa Blask Campbell
We often talk about self-care, emotional intelligence, and regulation—but what if the missing piece is learning how your unique nervous system actually works? In a recent conversation with Alyssa Blask Campbell—author of Tiny Humans, Big Emotions and Big Kids, Bigger Feelings—we explored how tuning into your nervous system can completely transform the way you show up as both a partner and a parent. Alyssa’s work centers on raising emotionally intelligent kids, but as she points out, these insights apply to all of our relationships.
We often talk about self-care, emotional intelligence, and regulation—but what if the missing piece is learning how your unique nervous system actually works?
In a recent conversation with Alyssa Blask Campbell—author of Tiny Humans, Big Emotions and Big Kids, Bigger Feelings—we explored how tuning into your nervous system can completely transform the way you show up as both a partner and a parent. Alyssa’s work centers on raising emotionally intelligent kids, but as she points out, these insights apply to all of our relationships.
Why Your Nervous System Matters
When life feels overwhelming, most of us reach for generic advice: “take deep breaths,” “go for a walk,” “practice self-care.” But those one-size-fits-all strategies often fall flat because they don’t take into account the reality of your specific nervous system.
As Alyssa shared:
Each of us has unique traits, sensitivities, and needs.
What calms one person might overstimulate another.
Understanding your wiring can create more compassion, reduce conflict, and help you show up with greater presence in your relationships.
This awareness shifts you from being a passenger in your life—constantly asking, “Why do I feel like this?”—to being in the driver’s seat, able to anticipate, regulate, and respond with choice.
How It Plays Out in Relationships
Alyssa gave a simple but powerful example from her marriage. She tends to excel at executive functioning—organizing, planning, anticipating needs. Her husband, on the other hand, has strengths in other areas but finds that kind of mental load more challenging.
In the past, this difference might have led to frustration: “Why can’t you just think ahead?” But by understanding their different nervous systems, she could reframe the situation. Instead of resentment, she could offer compassion and adjust her own communication.
This shift—seeing differences as neurodiversity rather than flaws—has strengthened not just her marriage but her parenting, too.
What We Get Wrong About Parenting
One of the biggest myths Alyssa highlighted is the belief that kids’ behavior is always a choice.
In reality, for a child (or an adult) to access self-control, they must first be in a regulated state. That requires:
Self-awareness (recognizing the physical signs of dysregulation)
Tools for regulation (and the ability to access them in the moment)
Without those, expecting perfect behavior—whether from a toddler at bedtime or an adult in an argument—is unrealistic. Dysregulated nervous systems don’t make good choices, no matter our age.
The Power of Repair
Another cornerstone of Alyssa’s work is the importance of repair. None of us—parents or partners—get it right all the time. What matters is how quickly and genuinely we can acknowledge mistakes.
She shared that her own parents never apologized, but in her household, repair is non-negotiable. Whether it’s snapping at her kids after a stressful day or needing to pause an argument with her husband, she models accountability: “I’m sorry. That wasn’t okay. Here’s what I’ll try next time.”
Repair, she says, dissolves shame and builds resilience.
Nervous System Literacy: The Nine Senses
Most of us grew up learning about five senses. But Alyssa reminds us there are nine—including proprioception (knowing where your body is in space), vestibular (balance and movement), and interoception (internal cues like hunger, fatigue, or a racing heart).
Each of us falls on a spectrum from sensitive to seeking in each of these senses. That’s why one partner may love the chaos of a noisy household while the other feels completely drained by it. Or why one child thrives on co-sleeping while another sleeps best with more space.
Knowing your profile—and your family’s—can be a game changer.
A Practical First Step
If all of this feels overwhelming, Alyssa has created a free Regulation Questionnaire at seedquiz.com. It helps you map your nervous system across all nine senses and gives you personalized strategies for regulation and self-care.
Unlike prescriptive “do this every day” lists, this tool helps you discover what actually works for you—and for your kids.
Final Thoughts
Understanding your nervous system isn’t just about parenting—it’s about building healthier, more compassionate relationships across the board. It allows us to:
Respond instead of react.
See differences as strengths, not shortcomings.
Repair quickly when we mess up.
Create homes and partnerships where everyone feels seen and supported.
As Alyssa beautifully put it: “When I learned how my nervous system works—and how my husband’s works—it transformed everything.”
And the best part? It’s not about perfection. It’s about awareness, choice, and repair.
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Episode Transcript
Stephanie Rigg [00:00:04]:
You're listening to On Attachment, a place to learn about how attachment shapes the way we experience relationships and where you'll gain the guidance, knowledge and practical tools to overcome insecurity and build healthy, thriving relationships. I'm your host, relationship coach, Stephanie Rigg. And I'm really glad you're here.
Stephanie Rigg [00:00:29]:
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of On Attachment. Today I'm joined by Alyssa Blask Campbell, who's a parenting expert and author of Tiny Humans, Big Emotions and her new book, Big Kids, Bigger Feelings. Alyssa's work centres on helping parents and caregivers understand the role of the nervous system in raising emotionally intelligent children. In our conversation today, we explore how a deeper understanding of your unique nervous system can not only make you a more attun parent, but also a more grounded partner. Rather than taking a one size fits all approach, Alyssa shares how tuning into the specific traits and needs of your nervous system can totally transform the way that you show up in all of your relationships. I so enjoyed my chat with Alyssa and I'm sure that you will too. So let's dive straight in.
Stephanie Rigg [00:01:15]:
Hi, Alyssa, thank you so much for being here.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:01:18]:
Hello. I'm so jazzed to be here and get to hang with you, Stephanie.
Stephanie Rigg [00:01:22]:
Likewise. So maybe for anyone who doesn't know you and your work, you could give a bit of an introduction to what you do in the world and kind of how you got here.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:01:31]:
Totally. So my master's is in early childhood education, but I did research in building emotional intelligence and we look so deeply at the nervous system and what I kept finding in space after space were regulation strategies for, like, how to calm your body and how to regulate and how to practise self care. And they were one size fits all prescriptive or feels like, oh, my gosh, I need so much time and energy and capacity. Capacity or money to access those things. And so what we really dive into in our work is understanding your unique nervous system, how you operate and what it looks like to take care of you and then be in relationship with humans around you, whether it's your partner or it's at work or it's with your kids. And to understand if you are parenting, who is the tiny human in front of you, how does their nervous system work and how do you support their emotional intelligence? And it's been a wild ride over here, but I started Seed and Sow after the research ended to just share about it and it just kind of took off and grew on its own from there and it has now become, we have courses I have. My first book is Tiny Humans, Big Emotions. My second book is Big Kids, Bigger Feelings.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:02:53]:
And then we support schools, so elementary schools, middle schools, and then, like, daycare preschools here in the States and in Canada. And really just looking at, like, how do you do this work? And then I travel and speak, whether it's to companies and how to look at what this looks like in your business or in relationships and in partnerships, in marriage and also then in the parenting space.
Stephanie Rigg [00:03:19]:
Amazing. And I think the fact that you cover such a broad scope in terms of the applications of the work really speaks to the fact that this affects everything. Right. The way that we move through the world, our nervous system, our awareness of that, our. What was our literacy with respect to our own nervous system and that of others, I think is very, very profound in shaping how we perceive ourselves, other people, relationships. Like, in the moment, in the big picture, like, it's everything. So it makes sense that, like, it's. You've got so many tentacles in different places as you've, you know, done this work.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:03:51]:
That's it. It, like, it applies to everything. People say, oh, I came for my kids, but I'm staying for myself. Like, it is, like, the key to how you operate. It has strengthened my marriage. I mean, I did the. I had kids, and we use this in our marriage every single day. Like, my husband and I have very different nervous systems and how we integrate the world and process stuff and what our needs are, are so different.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:04:19]:
And understanding how one another, how ourselves, how we operate is so huge for us. Getting our needs met and then also showing up for one another.
Stephanie Rigg [00:04:31]:
Yes. And I think for me, I've worked with a somatically trained therapist for the past four years and doing that work personally and then doing some training in it as well, I think it just shifts you into a level of agency in your life that you don't have without that awareness. Because it's just like you go from, why do I feel like this? Why does this keep happening to me? And feeling very much like the passenger in your life, to being much more able to be present with what's going on for me, what do I need? And, like, bringing choice into moments that you may not previously have had access to that. And I think that alone is, whoa, that's paradigm shifting.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:05:07]:
A hundred percent. Oh, I love that perspective, Stephanie. That, like, it really allows you to be that driver and to not feel like life is happening to you, but instead to be like, oh, I get to have some control and choice and autonomy here in this Life and understand, oh, this when this happens. This is why I feel this way. And here are choices I have to navigate that.
Stephanie Rigg [00:05:32]:
Yeah, it's like, deeply validating and empowering at the same time. It's like, not a big mystery anymore. It's like, oh, that makes sense. Okay, and what am I going to do with it?
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:05:40]:
Yes, exactly. I actually, that just made me think, just the other day, we had a dinner plan. We were going to do, like, tacos, burritos. We kind of just do a make your own what? I like to have it in a bowl, My husband likes to have it in a burrito. One kid likes a taco, the other kid likes a burrito. And so we just prepare all the ingredients, kind of make your own thing. And our neighbour who lives behind us had texted and was like, hey, do you guys want to hang for dinner tonight? They have two kids, very similar age. And she was like, we were planning to do kind of like a Mexican night.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:06:11]:
And we're like, oh, we had a similar plan. Yes, what do you have? And she sent over a text of what they had. And I sent the screenshot to my husband was like, hey, we're going to combine with Emily and Ryan for dinner tonight. Here's what they have. I'm going to pick the kids up from school. Do you want to just grab the other stuff from our house and meet me over there after work? He was like, yeah, totally. He shows up and he had some ingredients, but not all of the things that I expected him to bring. And I was like, huh, Walk me through what happened for you here? And he was like, oh, well, she's got X, Y and Z.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:06:48]:
And so I brought these things. And I was like, right, so what is Sage, our son? What will he typically eat tonight? And he was like, a burrito with rice, beans and cheese. And I was like, correct, there's no cheese and no rice. And he was like, ah, sure, sure. And in that moment, like, I know that executive functioning comes very easily to me. I'm really good at the organisational planning side of things. And being like, okay, this is what she has. I know.
Stephanie Rigg [00:07:16]:
Tangent.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:07:17]:
Correct. And for him, that's a challenge. His brain works harder to do that. And there are things that his brain does easier than my brain does. And knowing that about him and how his brain operates, instead of being like, oh, my God, can you just pause and think through what is Sage gonna need for dinner? And bring those things instead, I was able to be like, okay, yes. I could have said, hey, here's what she has. Can you make sure we have X, Y and Z? Because it takes my brain less than 30 seconds to think of those things and organise it. And it's harder for him.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:07:56]:
And so I could just have set us up for success instead of leaving, running the experiment. Yes, exactly. And I used to get frustrated in a way that now I have. Compassion. Yeah.
Stephanie Rigg [00:08:10]:
Because I think it's very easy to project out. If I were in your position, here's what I would have done. And the fact that you haven't done that must mean that you are careless, selfish, whatever other things I might layer onto that and then go and feel sorry for myself, make you bad. And then you get defensive and off we go into our very, very predictable pattern of, you know, attack, defend. And we end up both feeling worse off for it.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:08:35]:
Exactly. And I think I used to chalk it up to like, oh, my gosh, it's the mental load that I just. And carrying the mental load. And so you don't even think of these things. And if you paused and thought of them. And when I pull back and really look at. There are so many mental load activities and tasks and things that he carries that I don't. I've never once thought about when our car needs to be serviced or switching our tires to our snow tires, which.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:09:04]:
Cheers. We live in Vermont in the States and so that happens twice a year. And there's just so many things that I don't think about or consider because he takes care of them. And the prep for meals and making sure we have the food we need for meals is in my domain. That's one of the things I take care of for our household. And so I could sit there and just be annoyed and be like, could you use your brain for 14 seconds and not make me carry the whole mental load? And being able to step back and be like, oh, yeah, this is not usually the bag he carries.
Stephanie Rigg [00:09:34]:
Yeah. And I think that, like, your ability to pause, have self awareness, have compassion there, it just saves so much of that because every time we go through those cycles in our relationship where we play out the same fight we've had, you know, a hundred different versions of, you're just digging deeper into that same track and it just, you know, collects more evidence in favour of the same stories that are not helpful. And so being able to just pause and actually find the choice point in those moments and go like, okay, most generous interpretation. What might I find here?
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:10:07]:
This little Brene Brown there.
Stephanie Rigg [00:10:08]:
Yeah, exactly.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:10:10]:
And the reality is we spend energy and time anyway. Right. Like I'm gonna spend time and energy either being so annoyed with him and then being like, oh my gosh, Emily, I need to vent about this because he's the most annoying human walking the planet, or I can spend the time and energy in the self awareness, the self reg and then ultimately the self control of choosing my words, choosing my actions. And he, he, when I was like, help me understand and then what stage gonna eat? He was like, ah, shoot. And luckily it's our neighbours. And he was like, I'll just pop home and grab those things and come back and not a huge deal and an easy fix. And I got to not live in a place of resentment while he was doing that.
Stephanie Rigg [00:10:49]:
Yes. Freeing, I think all over the place.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:10:51]:
It's such a gift to me. Yeah.
Stephanie Rigg [00:10:52]:
Yes, absolutely. So obviously a lot of your work is around the parenting piece. What would you say we get wrong as a society when it comes to parenting?
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:11:03]:
The idea that behaviour is always a choice, that when somebody likes is. Say a kid goes and they do something and they know they're not supposed to do it and they go and they do it anyway and they can tell you outside the moment they're not supposed to do that thing. The idea that they're choosing that is ill informed.
Stephanie Rigg [00:11:26]:
Interesting.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:11:26]:
What we know to be true is that in order to access self control, where we can choose our thoughts, choose our words, choose our actions, our tone, our body language, in order to access that, you need to be in a regulated state, you need to have access to your whole brain. In order to be in a regulated state, you have to have tools for regulation that are readily available and that you know and can access and you have to have self awareness to know what it feels like in your body when you're getting dysregulated. So if I have a kid who's like, oh, I know I'm not supposed to hit my sister or yeah, I was supposed to do my homework and I didn't and then I didn't tell you about it and that feels like it's all on purpose. What I need to know is, does this kid know if I ask them outside the moment, what does it feel like in your body when you're embarrassed, when you're scared of getting in trouble, when you feel overwhelmed by the homework, when you're frustrated or mad or you feel left out or embarrassed or you're sad or you're anxious? If they can't tell me what it feels like in their body when, when they're experiencing that emotion, they don't have access then to tap into the regulation tools they may or may not know to then be regulated enough to access self control. So often we want self control, but we gotta start with self awareness.
Stephanie Rigg [00:12:52]:
It's so funny that you describe that because I feel like that's a lot of what I teach adults to do. Totally roughly.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:13:00]:
That's why a lot of the people.
Stephanie Rigg [00:13:01]:
Who I work with, so many different spaces, a lot of the people I work with, you know, struggle with anxious attachment in their adult relationships and like not really having a lot of intimacy with your own emotional landscape. Being very other oriented, you know, being very tuned into other people's emotions, but a bit kind of divorced from your own and not really knowing like what's going on in my body right now, what am I feeling, what do I need? Most adults don't have that skill set. So the fact that we assume that an 8 year old should, I think it's just like really, really. And it's funny, you know, I have a 16 month old and I mean, I feel very grateful to have done a lot of this work prior to becoming a parent because I think it's just been hugely beneficial in shaping a lot of how I approach that and a lot of the decisions that I've made. But even still, like, I'll catch moments of frustration when like, you know, he's tired right before bed and just like will smack me across the face. I'm like, buddy. And he like lifts his arm, I'm like, ollie, come on. And he just goes for it again.
Stephanie Rigg [00:14:04]:
And I'm like, buddy. And it's like there's a flash of him knowing that whacking me across the face is not the thing he's meant to be doing. But like he'll just go again and again because he's dysregulated, he's tired, it's the end of the day. And expecting him to make great choices as a 16 month old when he's tired, it's putting those adult expectations onto children and then getting angry or frustrated or creating some story of you're a bad kid or you're disrespecting me is just like wildly unhelpful.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:14:33]:
Well, and you make such a good point though, like when he does it once and then you're like, buddy, please don't hit me or I won't let you hit me, whatever comes out next. And then he looks at you and goes to do it again. That's where we often think it's coming from, a place of self control that they're choosing this. But what we know to be true is, yeah, they're tired and dysregulated in the same way that just the other night, I was in an argument with my husband. I was exhausted. I had had a day. And he was like, can we just pause this and, like, talk more tomorrow? I just think we're both, like, fried today, and we're not moving forward in any of this right now. And I had the opportunity to just be like, sure, let's just go to bed.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:15:18]:
And instead I was like, well, you're just trying to get away from it. You want to run away from it because conflict avoidance, and you don't want to. For the love of everything holy, Alyssa, can we just pause? And it's not because I'm like, nope, I'm rolling up my sleeves with doing this exactly, like. Like, let's go. And it's not because I am choosing that and saying, you know what? This is gonna be best for my marriage. My husband just asked for a pause, stating that we're both tired, which is correct, and that we'll pick this back up tomorrow. It's not coming from a place of, like, this is the best thing for my marriage, or, this needs to be resolved tonight. It's not from a place of self control.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:15:56]:
It's not a choice. It's that I'm dysregulated and not noticing it, not aware of it, to regulate and then be able to make a conscious choice.
Stephanie Rigg [00:16:07]:
So what would have been the remedy in that situation? Is it like calling it earlier before you get to that point of dysregulation? Like, what would. What would you wish you would have done differently?
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:16:16]:
Just respecting him. Yeah. Just respecting him when he's like, yeah, yeah, can we pause this? Me saying, like, yeah, it feels hard to pause this right now. And, yes, we can pause this. And maybe that means. Yeah, but I can't just have small talk with you tonight. Like, yeah, I'm just gonna go listen to my book and go to bed. I don't want to talk about the logistics of the day or what the weather's gonna be or whatever.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:16:42]:
At that point, if I'm still too annoyed to just be kind to him. Yeah, then I'm gonna go listen to my book or listen to a podcast. Just go to bed.
Stephanie Rigg [00:16:52]:
Yeah. The gear shift from. Okay, we'll press pause. But I'm not gonna. I can't just totally drop it from my system because it's still there.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:16:59]:
Yeah. I can't pretend it doesn't exist. Right now, I am still very much annoyed with you. Yeah.
Stephanie Rigg [00:17:03]:
Yes. Yeah. Which, again, goes back to, like, different people, different nervous systems. I think some people can compartmentalise really effectively, and that can be, like, a great asset and also can piss you off if you're on the other side of it. Like, I. With an ex partner of mine, he would. You know, we'd be like, in an argument, and then he'd be like, anyway, I've got to go do work. And he'd just, like, shift and go straight into work.
Stephanie Rigg [00:17:27]:
And I'd be like, how can you be thinking about work when we're in the midst of this big argument? And I would create this whole story of, is this not even important to you? Because how are you able to do that? This whole elaborate thing? And it was just not really appreciating that we were coming at it from very, very different places. Yes.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:17:45]:
I will say that's a tricky part of parenting. And it felt easier when we had one kid because it was like, all right, we know he's gonna go down for a nap, or there's gonna be times where he's off playing. And there will be times for us to just focus on each other and continue. Like, when we have conflict or there's something we need to chat about. And now with two. There's so few times during the day where there's any amount of time where it's just the two of us to chat. And if we're in a conflict or I'm frustrated, and the kids also have needs, it's not like, oh, because we're fine to have conflict in front of them and model it, but it's like, we're in the middle of a conflict, and my son's like, mom, can you come help me with this? Or my daughter's, like, pooping over in the corner in her diaper. Whatever.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:18:31]:
Like, we still have to parent in the middle of it. And for me, that compartmentalization is so tough. And so what I've had to come to is, I will say it, and I'll say it in front of the kids so that when they feel the energy of the conflict, they don't think it's about them. And I will just say I'm feeling really frustrated about something with you, Zach, and I want to talk about it, and I want to find a time that's going to work where we can sit down and talk together. I think what's going to be easiest for me is to talk as little as possible to you tonight until we can talk about what's bothering me and to just say it in front of the kids so that. That's also modelled for them. They're not like, what is going on with mom tonight? She's batshit crazy and just like, on edge or what. And they can see, oh, yeah, sometimes you're in conflict with people and it's okay to be in the messy middle of conflict and not solve it right away.
Stephanie Rigg [00:19:29]:
Yeah, well, I mean, I think that's so profound. And I think back to my own family system, which, you know, love my family, but there were plenty of, like, plenty of things I don't want to carry forward. And I think one of them was, like, a lot of unspoken tension. And kids are so sensitive to that. And I was always so acutely aware of, oh, we're sitting at the dinner table and mom and dad are there some ice cold between them right now. But we're not going to talk about it. We're not going to acknowledge it. And so that just creates this hypersensitivity, hypervigilance on the part of you, the child going, if no one's going to name it, I guess I've got to try and figure it out on my own.
Stephanie Rigg [00:20:09]:
And that doesn't feel very safe because I thought you guys were meant to be steering the ship here, and yet it feels like you're not in control of this. And so I've got to be fine to counterbalance all of that other stuff that's going on over there. So I think that. That what you're describing is really beautiful. And even though, like, a lot of people might, you know, instinctively, that might sound really foreign, to have an acknowledgment of tension and conflict rather than a everything's fine, let's just put on a happy face. But, like, it's so obviously not fine. I think it's really risky, respectful to our kids and our families and our relationships, because it's really. The trust is built through the honesty.
Stephanie Rigg [00:20:47]:
Right. And, like, I've got this. It might feel a little hard or uncomfortable, but it's okay. And I'm here and I'm still, like, leading you through this and you don't have to worry or feel responsible. I think that's such a beautiful gift to give kids.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:21:00]:
One of the things that's hardest for me in life is when that, like, the neuroceptive sense, the energy reader of the space, is like, ooh, something's off in here. Or you can feel that energy being off, but nobody's naming it. Nobody's talking about it. It is one of the hardest things for me in life. In the same way that if I say like, oh, how are you doing? And you're like, I'm fine. And like, it stops there. And I'm like, no, but how are you really doing? You're like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm like, oh, you're not fine.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:21:30]:
And now I gotta get into this.
Stephanie Rigg [00:21:32]:
Yeah.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:21:33]:
Because then it feels so unpredictable. Right. If I don't know what's happening here, but that neuroceptive sense is saying something's off, that part of our nervous system is designed to keep us safe. It is designed to read the energy in the space or notice if, like, I had this experience the other day where I was just like, somebody's looking at me, you know, that feeling like, I didn't see anything. I didn't whatever. And I like turned around and this person was staring at me. And I was just gave them a look and they were like, are you seed? And so. And I was like, yeah, hi, yes, my name is Alyssa.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:22:10]:
But they. I could just. Just feel it. And it's. It's an uncomfortable feeling. And if they hadn't said, are you seated? And so. And I was like, yeah, actually my name is Alyssa, but yes, but if they hadn't asked that, then I'm going to create a whole thing in my brain of what is going on? Am I safe? Is that person going to do something to me? What's up here? And so when that sense is heightened, when it is in the driver's seat of our brain, it's there for a reason. It's there to let us know something's off here.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:22:38]:
And I. It is, it is one of the hardest parts about being a human on planet Earth for me is when you have that feeling and just nobody's talking about it.
Stephanie Rigg [00:22:47]:
Yes, I am very similar. And I think that part of that is probably partly being sensitive to begin with. But then combined with what I was describing, a family system where, like, a lot of things were there but not named. And so like, the hyper vigilance gets. That muscle gets really opened.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:23:05]:
My parents have never talked about a feeling in my whole life, ever.
Stephanie Rigg [00:23:09]:
I love that this is what you do now.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:23:11]:
This is what I do. Hey.
Stephanie Rigg [00:23:12]:
Hey, Mom, Dad. I wrote a book. You have a little read.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:23:16]:
You're featured in it, actually. You should check it out. There's some shout outs to you. My son, he's four and a half, and my parents were just staying with us for a week and there was like A little conflict between my father and my son. And later, I was debriefing with my son, and he said, why is Pa not saying I'm sorry? And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm 36 years old. I've lived with Pa for 36 years, and never one time in my life has Pa said, I'm sorry to me. And he was like, he never made a mistake. And I was like, oh, no, he made a lot of mistakes.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:23:52]:
One thing that's true is that Pa grew up in a house where the adults didn't say I'm sorry to the kids when they made mistakes, only the kids were supposed to say I'm sorry. And my son has not grown up in that. In our household. And he was just like, why? That doesn't make sense to him. And I was like, oh, this is so cool that that doesn't make sense to him. Because I grew in that household right where, like, it was believed that the adults did not apologise, that only the kids did. And, oh, man. Just the gift of repair.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:24:25]:
First of all, as a parent, that there's not a lot of guilt that I carry through the world and I hold currently, I would say, zero shame in terms of who I am as a parent. And it's not because I'm a perfect parent, but because I am quick to repair. I will pop in and be like, oh, man, when we were coming in from outside, I was so overwhelmed and I was not kind to you, and that wasn't okay. I'm sorry. Next time I'm overwhelmed, I'm gonna try to calm my body so I can be kind and that's it. And just move forward. And again, 36 years, not one of those. Not one of those.
Stephanie Rigg [00:25:01]:
I love that you say that because I was having this exact conversation with my partner a few days ago that, you know, obviously the parenting space is very polarised, and, like, a lot of people have a lot of charge. I take my hat off to you doing this stuff publicly, because when there are moments where I'm like, I personally find all things parenting very interesting, I'm like, maybe I could do some training in that. And then I'm like, I don't know if I'm brave enough. I don't know if my nervous system can handle expressing opinions in public about parenting. Because, boy, when you read a few comments sections, it's just, wow, okay. People get fiery real quick. Smart.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:25:35]:
I just read the comments section and you see their, like, shadows. You see their challenges. You see what happened to them. And I'm like, yes, at this point I mostly just see them with compassion.
Stephanie Rigg [00:25:47]:
Yeah, I think it's a lot of people who care a lot and so are very naturally defensive of the rightness of their way because no one wants to feel like they're being a bad parent.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:25:59]:
Right.
Stephanie Rigg [00:25:59]:
Everyone's trying really hard. And so the idea of I'm trying so hard and am I getting it wrong, that's really hard to hold. So it's much easier to make someone else wrong or, you know, be critical or judgmental of, of other people's approaches. But what you were saying around the shame thing, I was having that same conversation that like I feel so comfortable as a parent and like I, I said exactly that, like I have zero guilt or shame around parenting. And I think part of that is I feel 100% comfortable with the choices that we've made and the way that we approach it and, and like it's not about perfection at all, but it's just there is a value alignment there that makes it feel easeful even when it's not easy. And I think that that's a really beautiful thing because to what I was just saying about the comments section, I think that people who have kind of internal fractures around all of this stuff, that's where the sensitivity comes from a lot of the time is where you maybe don't have the self trust to fully back the choices that you've made or the way you've approached something. You don't have the confidence. And so as with anything, I think we get triggered by things maybe mirror our deepest fears or insecurities about ourselves.
Stephanie Rigg [00:27:10]:
And so if we perceive a shortcoming in the way we're doing something and then that gets, you know, a mirror gets held up to that in someone else and what they're saying or doing, then that's where we're very quick to react.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:27:21]:
I totally agree and will say that I do experience guilt in parenting. For me, guilt is, that is the emotion that lets me know when I'm out of values alignment, when I do lose my cool with my kids, or I feel like it skyrocketed more for me when I had my second and I'd be nursing my second and my first needed something and I felt like I couldn't meet both of their needs at the same time and would feel guilty for choosing somebody even if I knew, yeah, he can wait a minute and that'll be okay, like he'll be okay. I still would experience guilt there of ah, if I wasn't nursing Her I could go and just tend to his need right now. And so I definitely experienced guilt, but I. It is not an emotion that carries all day that like when I state it, when I say, man, you really need me right now and I'm nursing your sister and we both have to wait until I can come and help you with that. Gosh, that feels hard right now when I can just state that the guilt feels like seeing and then it dissipates. Yeah, exactly. And shame for me is the like, oh my gosh, I'm such a bad I am statements and that I don't feel like I live with as a parent, live with it in definitely other ways.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:28:46]:
There is for sure shame inside this body, but it is not in relationship to parenthood for the most part.
Stephanie Rigg [00:28:52]:
Yeah, yeah. And I think thank you for making that distinction. And again, I was only having that conversation the other day that like, I've only got the one child, but we will probably look to have another. And I was saying that like a part of me that has resistance to that is the anticipation of the guilt of having to divide myself. Because you know, something that's really guided a lot of my, the way I think about parenting is I think putting yourself in the position of your child, you know, when it comes to something like their sense of safety, emotional safety, physical safety. Like I think we, we think of safety in really objective senses. A lot of the time it's like, yeah, they're safe, they're fine. Like all of their, you know, key physical needs attended to.
Stephanie Rigg [00:29:31]:
They're fine.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:29:33]:
Yes.
Stephanie Rigg [00:29:33]:
And it's like, yeah, but put your in the shoes of a one year old. What's their view of the world and what's going on? And like, that's a very different picture. I mean, by the time that I, you know, if I have another kid, he'll probably have more capacity to understand that. But still there's this sense of like, I wish you had more context for things so that you know, from your sweet little point of view, like, you understood this more because there is heartbreak there in being everything to this little person and then bringing someone else, you know, bringing a new baby into their mix. It's like, I can imagine that as a transition is a lot.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:30:10]:
It's a lot. It's a lot. I think especially when, when you're parenting in a way where meeting emotional needs. I grew up in a household where having a roof over our head and food on the table and parents who honestly showed up to everything they were at. I was a multi Sport athlete and I was president of student council and all these things. And they were at everything. They showed up to everything. Our meals were taken care of.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:30:35]:
We had clothes and all that jazz. And. And for them, that was what they saw as success in their job as a parent and being there and meeting those emotional needs or the connection, needs, feeling, making sure we felt seen and valued and worthy was not what they viewed as their job. It's not what they experienced when they grew up. And so for them, I'd imagine that the shift, I'm one of five kids, the shift, as they added kids, felt as long as they could meet those physical needs for us and that we were physically safe, that great, they were doing it. And I wonder if economies scale. Great. Yeah, Legit.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:31:19]:
I wonder if my mom experienced less guilt because the standards are kind of different, right? Where, like, I'm parenting in a way where it feels really important to me to meet my son's emotional needs and needs for connection and to feel seen and valued. And that's in addition to the roof over the head and the food on the table and the clothes on his back and all that jazz. And so when his sister came in, my capacity and ability to meet those emotional needs all the time shifted that I wonder if my mom experienced that or not. You know what I mean?
Stephanie Rigg [00:31:56]:
Yeah. And it is, I think, like that generation of parenting, and I think a lot of people still parent this way. There's the backlash against, you know, that's coddling children or like, you're gonna turn them all into snowflake, that whole kind of narrative. And I think it's fun. Funny, right? Because so much of the research, as I understand, and you'll be able to talk to this, is that like, that's how resilience is actually, like true resilience is crafted through being able to be present with hard things and stay with them and like co regulate, create safety. That's what then allows a child to become an adult who can hold themselves through difficult emotions rather than numbing out or reaching for any number of things to try and get away from bad feelings that they never really learned how to. To be with and hold 100%.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:32:44]:
I mean, you see it in the adults around us, right, that there are so many adults that when they're having a hard feeling, when they are frustrated, they're either yelling, they're snapping, they. You're. It's coming out in that fight mode or an assertion of power or control or dominance, or they're running away from it, sometimes literally Running from it or they're scrolling social media to avoid it. And I mean, favourite coping mechanism when I don't want to be with my feelings, it's just like Facebook marketplace or online shopping. I don't even need to get the thing. I'm just like, fill a card.
Stephanie Rigg [00:33:18]:
Marketplace is great for that because you don't even have to be looking for anything available.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:33:23]:
Yeah, no, just like, is it still available? And that's it. I got that dopamine hit. And so I. When we are able to be with our emotions and allow them to. To be experienced, that's actually how we move through them. I mean, bless. I look at, like our political system today and there are so many humans. I'm like, oh, I want to have you in my preschool classroom.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:33:47]:
Or I want to go back and get to coach your parents and just help them let you know that you're loved and you're valued and you're worthy and that you're enough and that having power in control isn't what makes you lovable.
Stephanie Rigg [00:34:03]:
Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's easy to feel, like, hopeless, a sense of despair, pessimism. When you look at the state of the world and like, how not only.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:34:13]:
Tough country to live in right now.
Stephanie Rigg [00:34:14]:
Over here in the States, I bet, you know, not even just like at the leadership level around the world, but even, you know, broader trends of, like, youth mental health and all of the things on social media, like, all of that can feel like a pretty, you know, worrisome picture. How do you think about all of that? Like, obviously, I guess, balancing that against this, what seems to be a rising tide of more awareness, you know, the kind of work you're doing. I'm thinking of people like Jonathan Haidt and the anxious generation. And like, all of the work he's doing, it feels like there's a movement kind of swelling in the other direction to try and, you know, change some of these trends in a more positive direction. Do you. You feel optimistic? Do you have days where you maybe.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:35:02]:
Okay, yeah, I say I largely feel optimistic. I mean, I didn't grow up in a world where emotional intelligence was buzzwordy and now it is. And how freaking cool is that, that now it's in the zeitgeist to talk about emotional development, that there are schools globally that are looking at how do we support mental health for kids, for teachers, for the community at large. And as a human who, oh, man, for chunks of my life was like treading water to stay afloat, turning to alcohol or substances or coping mechanisms like shopping or being able to control things like food intake or looking at what can I have power and control over to feel safe in the world. As a human who had bouts of that throughout my life, I'm like, how cool is it that we're talking about emotional development now? That's so radical because I think with that there's not a world in which we can't have positive results from that. That kids are adults are learning more about how their brains and bodies work and that emotions exist and that you, even if people aren't talking about them, that they exist and that you're not bonkers for noticing that energy shift in the room and nobody talking about it. And that that's weird. And that to me is so dope.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:36:27]:
I don't think we have everything figured out. I don't think every system has it figured out. I think we'll continue to evolve in that realm and everything will continue to evolve. Right. Like the roles that technology play, as Jonathan pointed out. And I read the Anxious Gen and I'm like, also I feel like there's a lot of fear in there and not, not always a lot of support or structure for like, what does this really look like? How do you as an individual parent navigate this? So many adults that I have connected with after they've read the Anxious Gen just feel more anxious and I'm like, I don't know if that's solving the problem, but there are books like Power on is out now, it's a new book and I think that's super helpful for managing screens and understanding them and all that jazz. So there's, I think as, as the world is changing, so are our resources, so is our availability of research and the ability to understand how things are shifting and changing and to kind of have a pulse on how to fine tune systems. So yeah, I'd say largely I feel hopeful because my kids get to grow up in a world where some adults might apologise to them, where they get to have feelings in more spaces than I got to have feelings.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:37:44]:
Where they get to have some teachers and parts of their school systems that acknowledge that their brains and bodies work differently from the humans around them. And we're going to work to figure out what's best for you. Like that's all pretty new and pretty cool.
Stephanie Rigg [00:38:01]:
Yes. Yeah, I agree and I think that it's easy to focus on those big macro things and feel overwhelmed, but really the place where we can have so much impact is like in our families and our communities. And the ripple effect of doing this work is really profound. I would love to kind of wrap up by just circling back to something that you said earlier, which was that people can hear about like nervous system regulation and self care and feel like it's maybe got barriers to entry or it's like something that you're meant to do perfectly, that's meant to look really shiny and you know, feel like, oh, I just, I'm, that's just like another thing on my to do list or another thing that I'm, I'm doing wrong that I now feel overwhelmed by or guilty about. What would be like a better reframe or maybe the first step that people could take if they were wanting to focus on this, but in a way that doesn't elicit all of those feelings of overwhelm and perfectionism and whatever else.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:38:56]:
I love this so much. So the nervous system is what I could get the nerdiest about in my life. And because I, I, it, it really impacts everything. And when I got to learn how my nervous system works and how my husband's nervous system works, it totally transformed how I got to live, how we got to be in relationship. So what I did was I worked with a group of occupational therapists to put together a regulation questionnaire there. It's pretty in depth. You can take it at any age or stage. So you could take it for yourself as an adult.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:39:34]:
You can take it for kids at different ages. It'll give you age appropriate results and age appropriate questions and it will show you how your unique nervous system works and then what might be helpful for you for self care. So just to get nerdy with you for a hot minute. We have nine senses. I talked about neuroception earlier, that spidey sense. We also often hear of those five. Sight, sound, taste, touch, smell. And then there are three others.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:40:02]:
We have interception. This lets us know those internal cues. I am tired, I have to go to the bathroom. I'm hungry. My heart's beating fast. Those kind of internal cues. And then we have proprioception. This lets us know where our body is in relationship to other things.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:40:19]:
So the humans who this. I have low purposeptive awareness. What this means is I like bump into stuff all the time. I like always have bruises on my legs because I bumped into the corner of the bed or whatever. Yep. And the bed isn't moving anytime. It's in the same place. But my brain still is like I can't cut that corner correctly.
Stephanie Rigg [00:40:40]:
My partner, I'm exactly the same. My partner makes Fun of me. And I'm very tall, so I like to blame it. I'm like, my limbs are a long way away from my brain. It's like, it's a lot to coordinate here.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:40:49]:
That's so good. Yeah. No, and so our, our proprioceptive sense. And for those of us who have lower proprioceptive awareness, our body's constantly craving propriocept because it proprioceptive input to let us know where our body is in relationship to other things. So we are humans who we might enjoy co sleeping. We might like to have that baby on our body or to hold our partner's hand or to kind of snuggle up. Or I could have a massage for four days. 100%.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:41:20]:
Yeah. And then folks who have higher proprioceptive awareness. Actually myself son hated co sleeping. We had planned on it. And he has hyper perceptive awareness. He has a really big space bubble. Once we moved him into his own room, he slept through the night and we were like, oh, you hate being near us. And that's very much true to who he is.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:41:41]:
Now. He will say he likes. He'll stand inside of a hula hoop and he's like, I want this much space. And he has high proprioceptive awareness. He can bob and weave in and around things. He has a little like tractor he rides on. And I'm like, oh my God, he's going to hit that fence or that toy. And he just bobs and weaves in like accurate 100% of time.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:42:00]:
And then we have our vestibular sense. Our vestibular sense is our movement sense. It keeps us upright. It's responsible for our balance. And you access this by moving the plane of your head. So it could be like dipping upside down. It could be spinning. My husband sits in a swivel chair at work that can go back and forth.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:42:19]:
He's vestibular seeking and so that helps him regulate throughout the day. I would get motion sickness. I am vestibular sensitive. And so we have all nine senses. And for all of us, we fall somewhere on the spectrum for each of them from sensitive to seeking. So it either drains us or it calms us. And we're all different. My husband is visually sensitive.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:42:43]:
So for him, if there's like clutter in my household or I'm the annoying partner who's like leaving piles of laundry or piles of mail or whatever on the counter and he's like, like just put it in a drawer or just away from my eyes.
Stephanie Rigg [00:42:57]:
It sounds like we are very similar. Like my partner is like that. And I am like, not really fast about, you know, leaving my bag on the counter, but sound, I'm like, oh, me too. You know, my partner will play the piano and my one year old's like blowing on a harmonica and my dog's barking. I'm like, no, can't do it.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:43:15]:
This is how I die. Oh, my God.
Stephanie Rigg [00:43:18]:
Yeah, I'm gonna kill you all.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:43:19]:
Absolutely. And so my husband's a drummer and same I'm sound sensitive. And if he's like. Because there's always a song in his head, he's always tapping something. And if he's tapping at 9am and we're freshly rested and whatever, I can navigate it, I have enough capacity for it. If he's tapping at 6pm and it's dinner time, then I want a divorce. Right. So when we're looking at this, what we're looking at for this nervous system is understanding what drains you, what recharges you.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:43:46]:
So that when we say self care, we look at it as taking care of yourself. So you can take care of yourself throughout the day. You can practise that self care recognising it's not one size fits all. If I sat in Zach's work chair all day long, it's not gonna recharge me in the way that it recharges him. And so we put together this questionnaire. It's completely free. You go to seedquiz.com also there's a QR code in big kids. Pick your feelings for it as well and it will help you understand how your nervous system works.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:44:17]:
You'll look at, you can see all nine of those senses and see like your plus or minus. Are you plus two or minus two and what does that mean? And where do you fall? And then some ideas for what's helpful for you for reg. So seedquiz.com if you were going to do one thing, that's what I do.
Stephanie Rigg [00:44:32]:
That is amazing. That is a like, way more tangible answer than I was expecting because that's like actually a place so we can send people. It's not like go for a walk once a day. It's do this quiz and find out like it's, you know, it feels like the next step that then provides like a really, really personalised next step after that. So that's amazing. We'll definitely link all of that in the show notes as well.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:44:51]:
Yeah, good.
Stephanie Rigg [00:44:52]:
Alyssa, I feel like we could keep talking for a really long time about a lot of different things, but I know that it's getting late your time. Where can people find you? Your book, I think will be coming out pretty much the day that this episode airs. So that's Big Kids Bigger Feelings. So I imagine people can find that wherever they find books. Where else can they find you? What's best if they want to connect more deeply with your work.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:45:12]:
Yeah. So Big Kids Bigger Feelings is like the 5 to 12 year old range. If you have kiddos and tiny humans. Big Emotions is like kind of that birth to 6,7ish range. And I also read the audiobook for both of those. It's available in audio as well. And I hang out at Seed and Sew. Seed and Sew S E W over on instagram and then seedandsew s e-w.org is like our mothership where all of our resources are as well.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:45:47]:
Yeah. And we have a podcast, voices of your village. I drop an episode every Thursday.
Stephanie Rigg [00:45:51]:
Amazing. Well, we will link all of that for people to go and connect with you further. Thank you so much Lisa. It has been absolutely delightful chatting with you.
Alyssa Blask Campbell [00:46:00]:
Thank you so much for having me. I also could have hung forever if it wasn't 9pm my time.
Stephanie Rigg [00:46:05]:
I'll let you go to bed. Thanks. Alyssa.
Stephanie Rigg [00:46:11]:
Thanks for joining me for this episode of On Attachment. If you want to go deeper on all things things, attachment, love and relationships, you can find me on Instagram @stephanie__rigg or at stephanierigg.com and if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you could leave a review and a five star rating. It really does help so much. Thanks again for being here and I hope to see you again soon.
Keywords from Podcast Episode
attachment, emotional intelligence, nervous system, parenting, relationships, child development, self-awareness, self-regulation, mental load, self-care, family dynamics, conflict resolution, marriage, somatic therapy, emotional literacy, behavioural choices, co-regulation, repair in relationships, individual differences, sensory processing, resilience, burnout, childhood emotional needs, adult relationships, neuroception, compassion, guilt in parenting, shame, family communication, children's emotional safety